LouMarcon

Several American Hockey League teams of the 1960s had great logos. Here are four gamers.

I got a kick out re-reading after several years the many morose responses (mine included) to this thread, started about 6 1/2 years ago by Hockey Bob. Me, I'm still in the business of collecting game worn AHL/IHL circa 1960s sweaters. I'm a little more selective now, still looking for my 3-4 Grails. As a result, I haven't added to the collection in about 5 years. Haven 't sold anything either. And, I still pull some of my favorites out of storage (sealed in plastic bags, stored in plastic bins) to wear when I attend Penguins and Robert Morris University games. My adult daughter advises that a guy my age shouldn't be seen in public wearing an old hockey sweater, to which I remind her that at my age I'm way, way beyond caring much what people think of the byproducts of my somewhat eccentric hobby. My reason for posting here, I'm curious as to how many who responded in this thread in 2012 are still active in the hobby, and/or still active, period! If nobody responds, I'll assume either you guys found a better way to spend your money and time or you currently reside in hockey jersey heaven. In any event, I hope you collections are in good hands.

I think I paid something like $275 for five logos. Five was the minimum order they would take. The company is no longer in business. Somebody bought them out. I occasionally get a promo email from the new company. I'll send it along the next time they send me something. But, beware. It was a foreign company and getting them to follow specs was like pulling teeth. Very tedious.

You will note that all of the EFF hockey jerseys offered to the public are of defunct teams. If the team is still alive, EFF can't make one of its jerseys because of trademark consideration. The classic USA 1960 white sweater has been used by several USA Hockey teams in the past decade, Olympics, junior worlds, world championship, etc. I'm just guessing now, but that might be the reason they don't want to offer this jersey to the public via their catalogs. I doubt that the Russian jersey was ever trademarked. Actually, EFF through the years has offered some very interesting North American minor league team sweaters, particularly from the American Hockey League, circa 1960s. All of these teams are defunct. I have some of those, Quebec Aces, Cleveland Barons, red and gold Pittsburgh Hornets jerseys and Buffalo Bisons with the distinctive Pepsi Cola logo. EFF has produced at least three different versions of the 1961-63 light blue Pittsburgh Hornets sweater. Each has been a little more accurate than the former. The one they are currently offering on the Web site is pretty accurate except for the felt numbers and the yoke is rounded rather than squared at top of the shoulder. The logo that EFF is now using is a spin off of the custom Hornets logo I had made by a California vendor some 5-6 years ago. EFF started producing the current blue Hornets jersey with a logo that is identical to my custom logo after one the game worn blue Hornets jerseys was sold by the Frozen Pond auction house. Someone from EFF must have seen it, cause their latest blue Hornets offering is identical, except for that darn yoke! I had Cohen make me the 1961-64 red Hornets sweater as a custom job several years ago. I paid about twice what the EFF jerseys offered to the public cost. Then much to my surprise, I saw my custom jersey in the next EFF catalog at a price of about 50% of what I paid for the custom job. I e-mailed EFF and asked if I was going to get a finder fee for the red Hornets sweater, but I'm still waiting for a response. In the end, I think Cohen got tired of dealing with me. For the price I was paying, I wanted the custom jerseys I ordered (the 1960 white US Olympic sweater and the blue and red Hornets sweaters) to be as accurate as possible. EFF was charging top dollar, and I wanted each jersey to be totally accurate. I sent over a dozen pictures of each of the jerseys, so there was really no reason that they should not be accurate. In the end, I think I wore out my welcome with Mr. Cohen. That said, I've always maintained that the base hockey jersey that EFF produces is pretty darn impressive. So what I'd do, when I was still collecting replicas, was buy the EFF off the rack and have someone like Dave Frost strip it and replace the felt letters/numbers with twill and improve the logos. Frosty has the patience of a saint. I'm polite, but very firm. I know what each jersey I buy should look like. Frosty always said he appreciated a custom who knows what he wants. David's speciality is baseball jerseys, but if he's still into customized hockey jerseys you can't go wrong with him. If he builds a hockey jersey for you from scratch, his jersey vendor is a Chinese firm so the sweater is not game weight. But the accuracy, if you give him enough pictures is usually 100%, spot on! That's why I say the best of both worlds is an EFF base jersey that is stripped and customized by David Frost. Here's the two EFF Hornets jerseys I've discussed here. The numbers, captain's C and stars are twill, done by Dave Frost, and the totally embroidered logos were made by a third vendor in California:

Charlie did my patches from scratch. He's the best! Very easy to work with and very affordable. As for your USA jerseys, make sure EFF squares off the Navy Blue yoke on the white sweater at the TOP of the shoulder. The yoke on mine is about 2-3 inches too long, despite my repeatedly telling Jerry what I wanted. Nevertheless, you'll have one of only two replicas of the white jersey (mine being the other) that I've seen in the industry. I say that because guys who get something as unique as the white sweater usually want to show it off other collectors by posting pictures. I've seen a couple of the blue 1960 sweaters but never the white. And, the patches weren't even close to being as accurate as Charlie Dombeck's. I know EFF charges an arm and a leg for the custom jobs so I hope they get your two right.

David Frost did the blue sweater for me. I believe he charged "around" $150 (perhaps a little less) which was to change the felt numbers (sleeves and back) and felt letters on the front to twill. I haven't talked with David in at least a couple of years so I'm not sure he's still doing customizing work. If he is, I highly recommend. His work is excellent. He cares and has a keen eye for detail. Do you have any pictures of your EFF Christian brothers jerseys? Did EFF make the Olympic patch (on the front) for you? Cohen refused to make the patch for me, even after I offered to pay extra. Overall, I respect the work of EFF. However, owner Jerry Cohen can be stubborn and at times lacks patience when doing a special order jersey, which certainly is not cheap. Case in point, is my 1961-63 light blue Pittsburgh Hornets jersey. I paid for the jersey and EFF cancelled the job when they were unable to get the shape of the yoke correct. I got a complete refund but was, nevertheless, disappointed. I then decided to purchase one the the blue Hornets sweaters off the rack so to speak. I was thinking perhaps I could send it to Dave Frost and have the rounded yoke that EFF offered to the public properly squared off at the top of shoulders. When it arrived, lo and behold the yoke was squared like I had requested on the special order that Cohen told me could/would not do.

I stopped briefly at the Pittsburgh Penguins newly renamed PPG Paints Arena (already known as the Paint Can) this afternoon to see Joe Toman's collection of Penguins jerseys. I purchased a couple of Fort Wayne Komets jerseys from Joe several years ago. He has the the most comprehensive collection of Pens jerseys that I've seen. It includes the road jersey worn by rookie goalie Les Binkley (top left) in the Penguins' first season, 1967-68; The alternate A worn by journeyman Duane Rupp in 1969-70; the No. 30 worn by G Gary Inness, 1976-77; and the No. 1 worn by G and current Pens GM Jim Rutherford, 1971-72. As Penguins VP for Communications, Tom McMillan, pointed out to me, note the blood stain in the white strip on the front of the Rutherford jersey. Rutherford is only 5-foot-8 but I was still struck by how small his jersey is. All are durene and for their age in Grade A condition. Joe told me a few years ago that he turned down an offer of $25,000 for the Binkley jersey. Several of the white Penguins road jerseys from 1967-68 were on the open market about 10 years ago. They sold for about $5,000 to $6,000 each, so I suspect the Binkley jersey is now worth the price of an A3 Audi. Or in other words, it ain't cheap!

Two things come to find: 1. Availability, or lack thereof. I have more appreciation for jerseys that are hard to find. 2. Personal experience. My first exposure to live hockey was the American Hockey League, 1961-67, and the International Hockey League when I went off to college in Columbus, Ohio, 1966-69. When the various auction houses have a new sell-off, I look first at the vintage (for me that's approx. from 1955-75) jerseys, particularly the AHL sweaters from the years listed above. And, because I, along with many guys my age, grew up listening to Bob Chase do IHL games on the radio, I have a strong interest in Fort Wayne Komet jerseys. Currently, I have four vintage AHL gamers from the 1960s, two Providence Reds, white and red No. 10s; Cleveland Barons, No. 9 Fred Glover, and a Quebec Aces No. 3, Noel Price and Bugsy Watson. I have not yet been able to get my hands on a Komets jersey from the 1960s. In the last 6-7 years, I've only seen one on the open market, the No. 15 worn by Merv Dubchak, but the asking price was unrealistic ($4,000). Hence I've had to settle for several Komets gamers from the 1980s, 90s. I also have a very extensive collection of Pittsburgh Hornets, Komets and various other IHL replica jerseys from the 1960s. You never get your money back when it's time to sell replicas, but, nevertheless, I put a lot of time, effort and $$ into getting the Hornets and Komets jerseys right.

Brian: I'll send you a message.

If the current owner of the 1961-62 Gene Ubriaco Pittsburgh Hornets blue, No. 24, jersey sold in Frozen Pond's April, 2014, auction is interested in dealing, I'm willing to offer double what the jersey originally sold for.

And finally, a 1986-87 gamer worn by Komets goalie Michel Dufour:

Jimm: For whatever reason, I can't send you a message. Give me an e-mail address. I've wanted to discuss the Merv Dubchak jersey which was for sale on ebay last month.

I was not planning to get involved in Classic Auctions' latest extravaganza (Feb. 25) until I saw in their catalog a rare Providence Reds gamer, circa mid-1960s, that I'd been tracking for a few years. The red durene No. 10 was a perfect match to a white wool No. 10 Reds game that I picked up from a Rochester, NY, surgeon a couple of years ago. I first spotted the red jersey in April, 2010, at the Grey Flannel Auction. It was incorrectly labeled as being worn by Alton White from the late 1960s - early 1970s. White, who I saw play with the expansion Columbus Checkers of the International Hockey League (1966-67), did wear No. 10 during his Reds' career (1968-72), but he never wore this jersey style. A search of team pictures on the Rhode Island Reds Heritage Society's Web site reveals the team wore these jerseys for just two seasons, but discontinued wearing this style the season White joined the team. Old game programs indicate these jerseys were worn by Len Ronson in 1964-65 and Doug Senior in 1965-66. What I found most interesting was the white wool was made by WA Henry, Inc. of Providence, RI, and the red durene came from Stall & Dean of Boston. Both are size 48, although it appears somebody left the red in the dryer too long for it has shrunk and is slightly smaller than the white. I got a LOA from Classic Auctions with the red jersey, but I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of the white wool, which has some black stick marks on the front, a small tear on the bottom front, but overall it is in excellent condition considering it's age. The size and font of the twill numbers on the back and right shoulder, the twill letters, REDS, across the front (and all of the strips) are exactly the same size on both. The exception is the embroidered team patch on the left shoulder, which is about a quarter-inch wider on the white jersey. The two Reds jerseys now gives me four AHL gamers from the mid-1960s. The other two are the No. 9 durene worn by AHL Hall of Famer Fred Glover of the Cleveland Barons and the No. 3 wool worn by Quebec Aces defensemen Noel Price and Bugsy Watson. Both the Aces jersey, which came from the collection of Joe Crozier, a former Quebec player and coach of Rochester Americans, and the Glover jersey have numerous team repairs. Both, show their age and perhaps that's a testament to the style of play by the guys who wore them, Watson and Glover. Both, were hardnosed agitators and neither would have won a popularity contest amongst their AHL peers. Still looking, however, for my AHL Holy Grails, the blue wool road jersey worn by the Pittsburgh Hornets in 1961-63 and the red wool Hornets jersey worn from 1961-64. The No. 24 blue wool, worn by AHL journeyman Gene Ubriaco, was up for grabs by Frozen Pond about a year ago, but I didn't learn about the sale until the day after the auction ended. I've never seen the red wool on the open market. But, I'll remain patient and keep looking -- for both.

I still have it. I'll send you a message.

I got in touch with the seller and we went back and forth but couldn't come up with a number that was mutually acceptable. My absolute maximum was half of the original price, $6,000. Actually, $3K was too high. I would have preferred about $2,500, but that wasn't going to happen. The buyer put the Dubchak jersey up for a second cycle on ebay, but took it down after a couple of days. It wasn't sold, but the ebay message said the jersey was no longer available. The seller told me he was selling the jersey on consignment for one of the old Komets, who he didn't ID. The jersey would have fit nicely into my collection of mid-1960s gamers, but the price was just too high. There are a couple of mid-60s jerseys currently up for grabs on Classic Auctions that I've had my eye on. Perhaps I'll have better luck there. As I mentioned in my first post, the price that a jersey sells for in strictly up to the individual buyer. I purchased a Cleveland Barons jersey last year strictly on emotion. Common sense went out the window. I overpaid and as a result I did not particularly like the feeling in my gut when I woke up the next morning to find I had won the auction. Since then, I always go into an auction or ebay sale with a maximum number that I'm willing to pay. It's based on what similar jerseys have sold for, AND what I think I can get when it's time to sell. And, I try to keep emotions out of it. I think that follows Dr._Puck's definition of CONTEXT. But, we all have our Holy Grail(s). Two of my three HGs were up for grabs over the last few years. I missed on one due to price and the second one due to bad luck. The first, the white 1960 US Olympic sweater was auctioned for $9,400 by Legendary Auction in 2010. I submitted an early bid, but the winning number was way out of my league. That was the first time one of the 1960 jerseys was on the open market, and based on the sale price I've pretty much written off ever owning one of those. Just too expensive. The one that really hurt, however, is the Frozen Pond auction last year of the 1961-63 blue wool Pittsburgh Hornets jersey worn by Gene Ubriaco. I do a periodic Google search for my Holy Grails, but I had never heard of Frozen Pond and didn't learn of the Ubriaco jersey until one day after the auction closed. I would have paid much more than the winning bid, so I contacted Frozen Pond and had them notify the winner of my interest. After a few days, FP informed me that the jersey had already been re-sold by the winning bidder. Out of desperation, I contacted the original seller of the jersey, Dan Woods, who was the trainer of the Hornets in 1966-67 and runs a sporting goods store in Ontario. I asked if he had any leads on former Hornet players who had jerseys from this period and might be willing to part with them. No luck. But, I agree with Oxbo. One has to be patient and keep looking. And, if you find one of your Holy Grails, hope the price is within your range -- and always try to keep your emotions in check.