Were there 2 Sets of Wild Wing Jerseys???

[chow_hound]

Alright, from what I thought to have known, there were only 1 set of wildwings issued to the players.

However I was thinking about the possibility of 2, maybe not for the whole team, but certain players. (The L.A. Kings had 2 sets of B.K's as well for the whole team, as did the Canucks have multiples for certain players who fought often.)

Anyways, for the Ducks, the inside tagging only indicates 1995-96 Secondary Jersey not a specific set.

The whole reason for asking this, is the fact that when looking through some reference photo's to crest a recent wildwing pickup, I happened to notice Paul Kariya wearing the Wildwing with 2 VERY DIFFERENT locations for the "A" on the chest.

1) The Game Worn posted by Justanothavictim which is great resolution photo, also commonly seen on the Beckett media guide, and wildwing poster. This one shows the "A" covering the taped blade of the wildwing mascot, with no evidence of any removal in the general area of an "A" being placed anywhere else. This could mean it was either, the first issued jersey with original "A" placement, or it was 1 of 2 jerseys. This jersey is currently owned by a collector and the "A" is in the same condition and placement as the game action photo's suggest.

2) If you refer to the Upper Deck 1995-96 Memorable Seasons Die Cut hockey card you will see Kariya wearing the wildwing with the "A" clearly shown on the far right shoulder (when looking at the jersey) which is consistent with the placement of Todd Ewen's jersey on Meigray and Randy Ladouceur's "C". If this jersey was the same one mentioned above and the "A" was moved it would show on the pic of the ghosted outline, however the video of the debut wildwing game shows Kariya with the "A" over the blade which would indicate that if a change was made to its location, it should still be in that spot which it isn't.

So after all that typing, my theory is that there are possibly 2 wildwing game worn jerseys for Kariya, and probably the second jersey (with the "A" moved far right) was done after the debut game to be consistent with the other placement on teammates jerseys of the "A"'s and "C".

This being said, has anyone encountered or heard of a second set for even 1 player who wore the wildwing, and can anyone think of a reason why they wouldn't have simply moved the "A".

Plus, does anyone have their 2 cents for where I should place the "A" on my Kariya wildwing. I personally think that over the blade is somewhat appropriate as it was only worn like that on Kariya's jersey, even though it covers part of the awesome grafic

[sungod661]

Ok here is the answer in short, there was only 1 set , the burger king had 2 sets but not for all players. In 1995-1996 the Ducks Captain was Randy Ladouceur but the "A" was shared among 3 players Paul Kariya, Bobby Dollas, Todd Ewen those 3 . Although Ewen and Dollas were the 2 alternates Ewen only played in 53 games so all other games where Ewen was absent Kariya wore the "A". If they both played Ewen wore the "A" not Kariya.

Therefor the A was moved from time to time, the possibility exists that there was 2 Kariya jerseys but i have seen the Kariya gamer in the hobby up close and it shows the stitching of an "A" in more then one place.

hope this helps

[sungod661]

also here are the dates the jersey was worn and as you can see EWEN missed a game, i believe that to be the game the A was moved around

1/27 4-5 loss against Los Angeles:

Corkum, Karpa, D. Sacco, Dollas, T. Ewen, Hicks, J. Sacco, Krygier, LaDouceur, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Sillinger, Tverdovsky, Karpov, Valk, Van Allen and York. Hebert in goal. Kariya, Rucchin and Van Allen each had a goal and helper. Gretzky went 1+3 for Kings...

2/2 3-4 loss against Hartford:

Corkum, Karpa, Dollas, Ewen, Hicks, J. Sacco, Kilger, Krygier, LaDouceur, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Sillinger, Tverdovsky, Karpov, Valk, Van Allen, York. Hebert in goal. 2 assists each on Kariya and Van Allen.

3/3 2-2 tie against Tampa Bay:

Campbell, Karpa, Dollas, Ewen, Hicks, Marshall, Sacco, Jomphe, Krygier, LaDouceur, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Selänne, Sillinger, Valk, Van Allen, York. Shtalenkov in goal. Kariya and Joe Sacco scored.

3/8 3-2 win over Buffalo:

Campbell, Karpa, Dollas, Ewen, Hicks, Marshall, J. Sacco, Jomphe, LaDouceur, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Selänne, Sillinger, Karpov, Valk, Van Allen, York. Hebert in goal. Marshall fought Boughner.

4/3 1-0 win over Edmonton:

Baumgartner, Karpa, Dollas, Hicks, Marshall, J. Sacco, Jomphe, Oksiuta, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Selänne, Semenov, Karpov, Valk, Van Allen, Van Impe, York. Shutout for Hebert, GWG for Kariya.

4/12 5-3 win over Dallas:

Baumgartner, Karpa, Dollas, Ewen, Hicks, Marshall, J. Sacco, Jomphe, Oksiuta, Olausson, Kariya, Rucchin, Selänne, Semenov, Karpov, Valk, Van Impe, York. Hebert in goal. Selänne had two goals. Ewen fought Cote.

Also note that by March it was Kariya wearing the "A" ahead of Ewen because Ewen was missing games cause of injures. Another important thing to mention was that the Kariya photo just another victim had posted was part of thread a long time ago where people were debating if it was game worn or not i believe Bob West was selling the jersey at the time(http://www.gameworn.net/cgi-bin/GW/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=006273). The jersey was sold as a game issued and not a game worn in the end. The actual gamer is in the hobby and is owned by a collector in Los angels that attended the the national expo a few years back. i got to examine the jersey and i even believe it was registered in the meigray system.

[Nathan]

I've never seen an additional Wild Wing for any player. I'm not saying there isn't one, but I've never seen one.

That said, there are a couple of things to consider.

1) At the time, teams were starting to get into the business of selling gamers. Ottawa, for example, was very open about the fact that they were having Daigle and Yashin switch out jerseys every few games to get as many out there as possible for revenue purposes. Toronto was also using somewhere between four and six sets of jerseys each year.

2) Individual players started to get into their own gear a bit more, whether for personal reasons or for charity/business reasons. I have seen forms from players in recent years basically ordering their own additional jerseys, presumably to have auctioned for charity or as gifts for family or friends. I've also seen a stack of blanks in a very unique size that apparently were supposed to have been made up but never were (I have a theory on that one, but I'm not sharing).

3) It's entirely possible that Kariya started off with one jersey, then the team made the decision to dump the Wild Wing after that season...meaning that they'd be sitting on a small number of blank on-ice jerseys. Rather than let that happen, it's possible that additional was made for Kariya (and maybe Selanne or Hebert).

[chow_hound]

Pretty sure that this is conclusive evidence of more than 1 wildwing jersey for Kariya.

I can understand if they decided to move around the "A", but to change the back #9 Angle and location is a bit much.

Top pic is from the first game they wore the Wildwing jersey, and the #9 is way lower and angled severely left.

The bottom pic is a photo matched gamer.

[sungod661]

the second photo is not the jersey i saw at the expo who owns that gamer? where did those photos come from? I am 99% sure there was only one set of wild wing jerseys because Brian Hayward was once telling a story during a ducks telecast that Jim marshall had forgotten to put the wild wing jersey in the wash bin after a game and that he had to play with the smelly jersey because there were no second sets because it was really a new thing for teams to have a ALTERNATE jersey.

Easiest way to prove that there was a second jersey is to find the owner of the "gamer" in that pic and ask him to recount where and when he got the jersey. I really doubt that Kariya had 2 sets and the rest of the team had 1.

i have never seen 2 wild wings of the same player.

[chow_hound]

The photo clearly shows the difference in the name and number location.

The top pic is from Kariya's back of the Game where the jersey debuted and is an image from FOX who broadcast the game.

The bottom pic is a photomatched gamer that was seen on the BECKETT media guide.

So both sources are legitimate.

[sungod661]

I am not doubting you i am doubting the second photo, i don't think the second photo is of a gamer and unless you prove the second picture is intact a picture of kariya gamer sweater then i still don't believe there are 2 kariyas.

The second picture is from where??? link me, i know just another victim posted the pic but that photo is not of a kariyas gamer.

[chow_hound]

The second picture is the same jersey that was posted by justanothavictim awhile ago.

If you refer to the Beckett Media Guide from 1995-96 (forget which month) i own a copy though, it clearly shows Kariya in game action wearing the same jersey. The placement of the "A", along with the back lettering and numbering is consistent with images from the Beckett guide and the posted jersey. Unless someone managed to get a blank wildwing authentic jersey, a legitimate 1995-96 Secondary Jersey tag, and then customized the jersey with the exact kit including matching angles, (which i guess could be possible, but probably unlikely) then there was definitely more than 1 jersey.

Just curious, is there any particular reason why you keep saying that the photo is not a Kariya Gamer? Is there something specific about looking at the picture, or some other information you know that would explain why it isn't?

[sungod661]

For starters there is nothing in the second pic that tell me its a gamer, i have already seen that pic in a discussion on game worn.net and it was referring to authentic jersey not a gamer. Unless you have a pic of the gamer that clearly shows the 1995-96 Secondary Jersey tag i don't believe that particular jersey to be a gamer.

if you think the 2nd pic is of a gamer send me the link where the person claims it is a gamer. So far all i have seen is A photo justanothervictim posted, Ricky a.k.a Lightning on this board bought a authentic wild wing on ebay a few months back he has since sold it to a forum member named BLEE. So there are a few of authentics in the wild. You are going on the basis that the second pic is in fact a gamer and you have done nothing to prove that other then refer to the becket media guide.

The beckett media guide is correct but the second pic is not of a gamer. The Kariya wild wing game rid owned by a collector in california and he would not post pics of the jersey fr fear of being harassed to sell.

i think there is enough factual evidence to prove there was 1 set Brian Haywards commentary during a ducks telecast, the fact that every collector and the team has stated there was only one set ect...

I am in no means want to start an argument with you i just think you believe there are 2 sets because of a pic that is not confirmed to be a gamer if you can prove the second pic is of a gamer (factually) then you may be able to convince me of the possibility of a second jersey but i think all the evidence points to one jersey that had the "a" moved

[chow_hound]

The link you posted is referring to a "King" wildwing, not a Kariya. Besides the point, I was not refering to an entire set of wildwings, simply more than 1 jersey for a particular player. An example of this is more common then you may imagine. While certain teams have a designated set 1/2/3 etc... certain players would have numerous changes and wear more than just the regular set 1/2/3 jersey. Being an upcoming star may have something to do with it, or simple things like trying a different jersey size because Airknit fit different than Ultrafil, or a ripped, damaged, lost jersey would all be reasons he COULD have worn more than 1.

A simple proof of this was Sami Salo on the Canucks with their 2010 3rd jersey. He complained to the team trainer about the NHL logo points (on the collor) jabbing his neck when he wound up for a slap shot, so for that game the trainer took scissors and cut the points off of the nhl logo when he was on the bench. For the next time they wore the same style jersey he had a completely different jersey with the NHL crest on the neck custom moved lower down on the collar. You could definitely tell it was a different jersey as the team repair on the neckline that was on the cut jersey was no longer there on the brand new jersey. This is an extreme example of a reason that a player who would normally only wear 1 jersey in 1 set style actually had an additional one made for some reason or another. There are many possibilities.

If you look in the bottom right corner of the Kariya jersey picture, you can see the outline and imprint of the team tagging, (which could always be faked, I agree). However, there are other video footage and pictures that show THE BACK of the jersey Kariya is wearing on the ice where his name and numbers are, and they differ greatly from the opening night photo shown above. Unless the team trainer decided to move all of the lettering, and the #9, and the "A" and restitch it all down, instead of just having another jersey made which is 50% less work then i don't know what to say.

[sungod661]

I went and reviewed the game film and some pics that i have and there are slight differences in the numbers but nothing conclusive could be the camera angles. I agree that the possibility of 2 jerseys does exist.

It would help if we could see the inner tag of the 2nd pic which could tell us it is in fact a gamer (that would be enough to prove 2 jerseys) maybe if we found out what are the origins of that pic we would be able to determine if there were really 2 jerseys.

Before this thread i was 100% sure and i must admit i am at about 90% now obviously the 2nd pic (bottom right corner) has put a little doubt in my mind. However the fact just another victim has erased the pic has lead to believe this jersey may not really be a gamer.

I will look into this deeper by writing some emails and trying to get a conclusive answer, thanks for a cool discussion just the fact you were able to go back 15 years to look at different pics is really cool. One way or another this is a pretty could thread in my opinion

[chow_hound]

Haha, I thought it was a good discussion too, Apparently only you and I seem to care though No-one else has commented.

It would be awesome if you can find any more info from your sources. I was originally positive there would only be 1 Wildwing per player because it was used so few times, and the set tags never had numbers, but on ESPN Classic Canada I saw the highlights from 95-96 season, and then checked hockey cards, magazines etc and seemed to see some big differences.

I still have the full size pics that were posted originally in gameworn.net of the questioned jersey, but unfortunately there wasn't an inside of the jersey photo showing the tag... just the front and back. However it seems consistent with the gamers in the big pic you can see the lettering from the patch pressed against the jersey so it's almost visible from the outside (but again, could have been moved from another Ducks jersey, or faked and added later).

Very curious to see what you can find out!

Thanks!

[LAK74]

Haha, I thought it was a good discussion too, Apparently only you and I seem to care though No-one else has commented.

Actually, this is a fascinating thread- I just didn't have anything helpful to contribute.

[LetsGoCaps]

Actually, this is a fascinating thread- I just didn't have anything helpful to contribute.

I agree. I find it reassuring that others have the obsession and attention to minute detail.

[00xtremeninja]

surely someone on here is close friends with Paul. give him a call!

or Twitter! if he has a Twitter account you could ask him there too. I got Enrico Ciccone to respond to me once.

in all seriousness this is a fun thread to read.

[NYIJM29]

Haha, I thought it was a good discussion too, Apparently only you and I seem to care though No-one else has commented.

I figured I'd let you guys find out the answer before I go pull out my 3 Kariya Wild Wing gamers outta the closet and settle it 1-2-3

[sungod661]

Well my attempts to contact the owner of the kariya jersey have failed , however i was able to retrace pics of the game worn jersey i had seen unfortunately just like the picture posted we do not see the inside tag but we do see an outline of through the jersey. The picture i am posting are from a dealer called DROPTHEPUCK who used to have a library of game worn jerseys. I know the jersey was sold in 2007 as you can see from the pics this jersey shows wear on the from and back.

i have no idea where the pics justanothervictim posted are from but again i doubt that jersey is a gamer (justanothervictim also removed them for some reason)

here are the pics

[

The plot thickens

[00xtremeninja]

The guy at dropsthepuck is incredibly knowledgeable of jerseys. if you guys are dead set on solving this mystery, shoot him an email or give him a call. really nice guy and loves to talk about stuff like this.

[Forsberg4MVP]

I didn't say anything because I didn't have anything to contribute but I do find this rather interesting and I am following this thread.

[Edge 2pointzero]

Kicking up an old thread here but was wondering if any of the posters above had any additional information on this. Very interesting thread and read in general.