rattlestar

Replica or IndoEdge... would you?

137 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, L2A3 said:

You are saying not correct but it almost sounds like you are agreeing with me??? (we are close, come on over to my side ?)

I guess I'll go back to biting my tongue but the dictionary tells me that I am using the terms correctly. 

Authentic = genuine article

Replica =  an exact or very close copy or reproduction 

Buying a jersey at the shop and having it customized to match a players jersey is clearly a reproduction of a team issued item  

***Just to make sure everyone knows my opinion was expressed with a smile, and I didn't mean to get anyone's dander up.

Happy Easter ?

Except that you aren't. The dictionary does not define how either term is used in jersey collecting. Each refers to something specific and your definitions from the dictionary don't match how they are used in the hobby.

If you look up the word "blouse" in the dictionary, it may resemble the definition of a shirt, or sweater, but nobody calls it a hockey blouse. 

 

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Yup. It's connotation vs. denotation. I think we learned this in like 4th grade? ?

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9 minutes ago, jsh139 said:

Yup. It's connotation vs. denotation. I think we learned this in like 4th grade? ?

That statement makes you an authentic nerd. ;)

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25 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

That statement makes you an authentic nerd. ;)

Hahaha ?

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42 minutes ago, jsh139 said:

Yup. It's connotation vs. denotation. I think we learned this in like 4th grade? ?

Whew, glad I used connote correctly, then.

And don't run off, New Guy. We love arguing about this crap.

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1 hour ago, furiousd said:

Whew, glad I used connote correctly, then.

And don't run off, New Guy. We love arguing about this crap.

You sure did! ?

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5 hours ago, L2A3 said:

Buying a jersey at the shop and having it customized to match a players jersey is clearly a reproduction of a team issued item  

 

You can purchase an authentic retail hockey jersey just the same as the teams do. Then you can have that jersey lettered by the same customizer who lettered the teams jerseys. The only difference between your new jersey and a game issued jersey is your jersey was never in the possession of the team.  This is the goal of most of the collectors here.

You have an authentic jersey not a replica.

If you want to get technical, wouldn't a backup jersey that a player wears because blood got on his "original" jersey be a replica? Wouldn't every jersey made after the "master" jersey was designed be a replica? I know I am being a bit of a jerk here, but using the dictionary to define hobby classifications is a bad idea.

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6 hours ago, mharolde said:

You can purchase an authentic retail hockey jersey just the same as the teams do. Then you can have that jersey lettered by the same customizer who lettered the teams jerseys. The only difference between your new jersey and a game issued jersey is your jersey was never in the possession of the team.  This is the goal of most of the collectors here.

You have an authentic jersey not a replica.

If you want to get technical, wouldn't a backup jersey that a player wears because blood got on his "original" jersey be a replica? Wouldn't every jersey made after the "master" jersey was designed be a replica? I know I am being a bit of a jerk here, but using the dictionary to define hobby classifications is a bad idea.

If a team wears three sets during the season, are sets 2 and 3 only replicas of set one?

Mind blown. 

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If you keep trying to reinvent the wheel, you still eventually invent ...nothing. 

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Just now, mfitz804 said:

Mind blown. 

 

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Not mind blowing at all because it was established in the first post that all jerseys on the team's inventory are authentic or genuine articles. 

Famous painter?‍?, let's call him Van Riemsdyk sets up 12 identical canvas' and gets his paints out.  He paints the first six with the same scene (a garden filled with maple trees) then has his protoge paint the next six also with the same scene. Now what do you have, same canvas, same paint, same scene?  You have six original Van Riemsdyks and six reproductions or replicas. 

 

A guy walks into a bar in Toronto, he is wearing an Austin Matthews jersey.  

Bartender says "Waow, sweet jersey, eh."

"Oooh, well thank you" he replies, "It's authentic, don't cha know!"  

Bartender- "Oooh, can I touch it?" "I've been a fan my whole life don't cha know, but have never actually touched a genuine Leafs jersey, something that has traveled the inner halls of the Air Canada Center (this would sound a lot better if they were still in the Garden), possibly has brushed by the 11 trophies (ignore the 50 year drought, focus on the story), and lived in the company of heroes, eh."

Guy- "Oooh, well I got this one over at Martha's Sports Shack, it has never actually been in contact with the Leafs in any way, sorry eh."

Bartender- "Oooh, well then what cha got there then is a replica, you can't go a callin that authentic, people are gonna think you're a hoser and tell you to take off, don't cha know."

Guy- "Terminology issue with our hobby don't cha know."

 

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8 minutes ago, L2A3 said:

Famous painter?‍?, let's call him Van Riemsdyk sets up 12 identical canvas' and gets his paints out.  He paints the first six with the same scene (a garden filled with maple trees) then has his protoge paint the next six also with the same scene. Now what do you have, same canvas, same paint, same scene?  You have six original Van Riemsdyks and six reproductions or replicas. 

Right, but if you have 12 identical canvases, they remain canvases regardless of who paints on them. The canvas is not a replica, what is applied to it is. 

Just as customization of a jersey doesn't change whether the underlying jersey was a replica or an authentic. 

Your own example disproves your theory. 

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It's like Groundhog Day for terminology discussion.

A replica of Groundhog Day, not the authentic with Bill Murray.

Edited by AParrotLooksAt40
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A guy finds something online he wants to buy from a vendor. He posts in a forum asking for reviews of said vendor. Someone in the forum replies, "I wouldn't do business with that vendor, they're really slimy".

Quiz:  Is the vendor really covered with slime?  Or, do their business practices leave a little something to be desired?

Words have different meanings depending on the context.  That's what makes language so rich. (again, does the language have immense wealth, or does it just have a lot of content?)

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16 minutes ago, AParrotLooksAt40 said:

It's like Groundhog Day for terminology discussion.

A replica of Groundhog Day, not the authentic with Bill Murray.

Its still on authentic film so it's all good. 

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What about this then.  I contact JerseyBaron and purchase a team stock jersey - complete with the double layered fight strap.  I then send it to the same customizer the team uses, and have it perfectly customized to exact team specs.  So this is the exact same jersey the team would receive from their supplier, and it is customized by the exact same people the does the lettering for the team.  But since it never touched the hands of the equipment manager - it is in someway different that what a player would also be wearing on the ice?  I would have some sort of replica?  That's just straight B.S.

This is why we already have terms made to describe what you are saying:

Game Worn, Game Issued, Team Issued, Authentic, IndoEdge, Priemer Replica, Replica, Knockoffs...

I guess call them what you want, it is just never going to replace what is already there and everyone already understands.

Edited by spudrock512
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11 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Right, but if you have 12 identical canvases, they remain canvases regardless of who paints on them. The canvas is not a replica, what is applied to it is. 

Just as customization of a jersey doesn't change whether the underlying jersey was a replica or an authentic. 

Your own example disproves your theory. 

Another reason why that analogy isn't real great is that Auston Matthews'  jersey and the one the guy is wearing (assuming it's a 2.0) came out of the same factory.  There is probably a decent chance that the same little old lady sewed them both, even. 

Actually, the painter analogy is probably closer to the Indo situation, except where Van Riemsdyk doesn't even give the "protege" the same brushes and paints to work with.  Protege might try hard, but with inferior skills and materials, there's no way it's gonna turn out the same.

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Let's also ponder: James Van Riemsdyk came into the league before Trevor did. Does that make Trevor a mere replica of James?

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3 minutes ago, furiousd said:

Actually, the painter analogy is probably closer to the Indo situation, except where Van Riemsdyk doesn't even give the "protege" the same brushes and paints to work with.  Protege might try hard, but with inferior skills and materials, there's no way it's gonna turn out the same.

Actually, a 2.0 vs. an Indo would be a different canvas, not different paint or brushes. :)

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2 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

Actually, a 2.0 vs. an Indo would be a different canvas, not different paint or brushes. :)

Considering the initial contention was that the jersey itself isn't even authentic, I guess that doesn't matter.  What I was getting at was more - the authenticity of the painting is determined by who painted it, not what they painted it with.  In hobby lexicon, the authenticity of the jersey is determined by who made it, not what lettering went on it afterwards.

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We have a bigger problem.  The Merriam-Webster dictionary has an interesting definition for the word "Authentic":

OoHlm6X.jpg

 

Oh, and someone better call Reebok and tell them that they are falsely advertising their product:

FXv0a05.jpg

 

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Just now, furiousd said:

Considering the initial contention was that the jersey itself isn't even authentic, I guess that doesn't matter.  What I was getting at was more - the authenticity of the painting is determined by who painted it, not what they painted it with.  In hobby lexicon, the authenticity of the jersey is determined by who made it, not what lettering went on it afterwards.

Well stated. 

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I think we can all agree that his impression of the Canadian language is authentic ;)

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This is one of the most inane conversations I've ever seen on IJ. I have a hard time believing there's a debate around a commonly accepted/hobby-accepted term. JSH nails it with "context"- the context and accepted set of rules in our hobby is that we affix the term authentic to a certain style of jersey. 

Edited by Dr_Puck
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9 minutes ago, jsh139 said:

I think we can all agree that his impression of the Canadian language is authentic ;)

Every time I read a post from out Canadian brothers, that's how it sounds in my head, so yes, completely authentic. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dr_Puck said:

This is the most inane conversation I've ever seen on IJ. I have a hard time believing there's a debate around a commonly accepted/hobby-accepted term. JSH nails it with "context"- the context and accepted set of rules in our hobby is that we affix the term authentic to a certain style of jersey. 

Trust him, he's a doctor. An authentic one, not a replica. 

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