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  1. Hi guys. Right off the bat, I want to say this is a great forum you all have put together here. There’s A LOT of useful information to be gleaned from this site for sure. That being said, I’m new to the forum and I apologize right away if this is posted in the wrong discussion. I have a few questions that I’m hoping some of you can weigh in on and hopefully point me in the right direction. Let me give just a little background. I won’t bore you with too much minutia of the details. I’ve been collecting the CCM Center Ice Authentic jerseys since about 1992. They were mostly mail order from Rivercity Sports in Toronto (I live in Minneapolis, MN). I bought 11 jerseys in total from Rivercity Sports before the 1st shift from the CCM embroidered/NHL Orange shield tail. I think I stopped collecting them when the NHL logo was changed to the familiar silver/black shield (circa. 1998-2000) used now. So these jerseys are what I’ve used to gauge ‘authenticity’ over the years. As I’m sure most of you know, you can look at the embroidered CCM/NHL shield and know for certain if it’s authentic or not. Well then the rise of the ‘Vintage’ jersey started appearing, and again, most of you probably know the subtle differences between Authentic and Vintage. Recently had the displeasure of purchasing, what I believe to be a fake jersey, from Ebay a road Quebec Nordiques that was touted as, “Quebec Nordiques Authentic not vintage CCM Jersey”, which in the seller’s listing he posted roughly 7 hi-res pics of the item in question. I was completely taken with the chance of finally getting the road Nordiques jersey that I failed to recognize some irregularities in the photos, which I’m still kicking myself for now. Basically, I asked the seller for a refund, to which he flatly refused. He then sent me a few follow up emails challenging me to prove that it was a fake. In one email he stated “I don't know that this is not a true Centre Ice Authentic CCM jersey. It's just your opinion that it is not. I have lots of these CCM hockey jerseys from the 1990's and I can't tell the difference.” Even with the admission of his lack of knowledge about the item; he maintained that it was all in my mind. My first question is discerning the difference between Authentic and Vintage. I know that CCM marketed a line of ‘Vintage’ defunct NHL team jerseys which I have never really had a lot of interest with. I kind of looked at them like the Mitchell & Ness of NHL but more affordable. So in my quest to confirm differences to what I believe is authentic vs. what I believe is fake; I have a few pics of my Authentic Center Ice Collection Quebec Nordiques purchased from Rivercity Sport in the ‘90s and pics of the so-called authentic I received from Ebay. Would some of you please weigh in with some opinions? Some of my photos aren’t that great, I apologize. The following images are home (white) authentic; road (blue) fake. Chest (Logo) Logo (Detail) Sleeve Cuff (Detail) One of the big tip-offs for me was how the cuffs where the colors change from white to blue are dyed on the authentic, but the cuffs are sewn on to the fake jersey. Hem Front (Detail) Another tip-off was the attached hemline also sewn on like the cuffs. The biggest tip-off comes from the CCM/NHL shield embroidery - On all of the CCMs I own, the embroidery penetrates both sides of the hemline not just the front. Hem Rear (Detail) I have since opened a case with Ebay about the seller advertising one thing and selling something else, to which Ebay has shifted the burden of proof to me. They have closed the case and exonerated the seller, stating that what he listed was what I got. Well in a sense that’s true, what he listed was what I got, but what he claimed is not what I got. I have appealed the case to Ebay, to which they have stated that I need to acquire, “documentation from the manufacturer of the brand name item or qualified third party stating that item you bought is not authentic. They must clearly describe how the item you received differs from an authentic item and how the person evaluating the item determined that it isn't authentic. If possible, the statement should include a serial number. In addition, it must be made on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the business. This allows us to contact them if we need more information.” Ebay has basically washed their hands of this leaving me with 10 days to prove my claim in order to secure a full refund from either the seller or Ebay, so I turn to this community for some advice on what steps that I could maybe take to prove this fraud. Hindsight is always 20/20, and there were some signs, looking at the posting now, that didn’t seem to pan out in terms of authenticity. The biggest deficiency in the seller’s photos was that he never showed a picture of the inside of the back hemline to show the CCM embroidery. I blame myself for overlooking that, but his other photos were convincing enough to sell this item. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I might secure some of this information for Ebay to refund me? Thanks for looking, and thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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