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HawksFan719

Nordiques return?

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"The talk revolved around the need for a new arena, the need for a good owner and the need for corporate support, according to ESPN.com's Pierre Lebrun."

Problem is, the Quebec City is too small to generate sufficient corporate support. It will never happen. The entire metro area has just 715,515 people. They are up against places like Seattle with 3,344,813 people, Kansas City with 2,053,928 people or Las Vegas with 1,865,746 people and a boat load more money looking to be spent.

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It's also important to consider the sizeable language issue. Quebec City is Francophone almost exclusively which made it that much harder for The Nordiques to attract and keep Anglophone players. (Yes, I am enjoying the opportunity to use the words "Francophone" and "Anglophone" if you must know.). JeffB makes a good point about QC's size in relation to other NHL suitors. Also, Kansas City already has an arena, The Sprint Center, with an NHL friendly 19,000 capacity.

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it's like comparing quantity to quality. quebec city without a doubt in my mind could support a team. not to mention suburban quebec city. as opposed to kansas city who'd rather see an nba team.

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Agreed that most hockey fans would rightly rather see a team in QC than KC for historical and passionate reasons. The way the NHL has operated under Gary Bettman however makes it much more likely that an American city, hockey mad or not, will be the next location.

Here's Ken "I hate fighting" Campbell's bit.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/2850...hink-again.html

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"The talk revolved around the need for a new arena, the need for a good owner and the need for corporate support, according to ESPN.com's Pierre Lebrun."

Problem is, the Quebec City is too small to generate sufficient corporate support. It will never happen. The entire metro area has just 715,515 people. They are up against places like Seattle with 3,344,813 people, Kansas City with 2,053,928 people or Las Vegas with 1,865,746 people and a boat load more money looking to be spent.

How does QC compare to Columbus, because the Blue Jackets don't seem to be doing too bad & I can't imagine a college town can drum up more corporate support than QC.

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As of the 2006 Canadian Census, the city has a population of 491,142 and the metropolitan area has a population of 715,515.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City
In 2008, Columbus was the 16th largest city in the United States, with 754,885 residents ...

According to the U.S. Census, the metropolitan area has a population of 1,773,120 ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_Ohio

Looks like Columbus metro is twice as big as Quebec City metro. Having lived in Columbus briefly and now working in Cincinnati, I can say that Columbus is much more than a college town. It's a city that was dying to have a pro team of some sort. I don't think any team in Columbus could rival the draw of the Buckeyes for football games though.

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Mirtle has a great discussion going on about this topic: http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/10/12/1081...eturn-to-quebec

I for one would like to see the wolf logo in action as well, even if its on Colorado's third.

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Ill believe it when I see it.

But if something like that did happen, go with the old logo. The logo the Nordiques had ready to go before the moved to Colorado is allright, but there is something about some of the older logos that I like

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Olympiad maybe, NHL club I just don't see it happening.

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Olympiad maybe, NHL club I just don't see it happening.

The fans are there but everything now a days is corporate support and I don't think its there in QC.

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The fans are there but everything now a days is corporate support and I don't think its there in QC.

That I agree on. 800,000 people in a metro area for hockey in Canada can act about up to double the size of what it should be (it will seem as if there is double the population supporting the team there). I would just be half afraid that they could not get the corporate support.

Another thing, in the entire history of the NHL, only one team has ever moved TO Canada (Atlanta Flames moving to Calgary), so, unless the NHL does plan on expanding, it would be almost unprecedented if a team moves to Quebec

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That I agree on. 800,000 people in a metro area for hockey in Canada can act about up to double the size of what it should be (it will seem as if there is double the population supporting the team there). I would just be half afraid that they could not get the corporate support.

Another thing, in the entire history of the NHL, only one team has ever moved TO Canada (Atlanta Flames moving to Calgary), so, unless the NHL does plan on expanding, it would be almost unprecedented if a team moves to Quebec

All very good points. I think one think the Yotes messed demonstrated and the NHL was forced to admit to was that Hamilton was THE lucrative market out there. If there is expansion/relocation, they would be insane not to seriously consider it (KC/AEG notwithstanding).

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I don't buy the "market is too small" thing. The Green Bay Packers operate in a market with only 300,000 people. Their stadium sits 72,000 people and it is always packed. Their fans are fanatical. But there fanaticism If QC wants a team I think they need to get people behind it 100%. Not just the people in the area, but Francophones from all over Canada(for merchandising). Hell, even Anglo Canadians and Americans would go batshit crazy for nords stuff.

If they could drum up some corporate support and field a team which reaches the playoffs with some regularity I really think they could steal some of the Habs fan base. People are really nostalgic about seeing the baby blue fly down the ice. The nostalgia surrounding the Nords is unbelievable. The only other team with close to as much is the North Stars.

I also don't buy the remark that they couldn't attract anglo players. This is just me, but I would rather play someplace where the fans eat and sleep hockey than a place where 90% have never even SEEN a puck(Phoenix, Nashville, Atlanta, Miami, and Tampa, I'm looking your way!). I don't care if I would need a translator for interviews, or if I'd need a pocket dictionary around town(QC is a pretty well off city so I'd assume many people could at least grasp english?) I've never been to Quebec City but from the pictures I've seen it has to be the most beautiful city in North America. The architecture there is just amazing. It has retained the Old World look, the way the Chateau Frontenac overlooks the St. Lawrence reminds me of the Prague Castle overlooking the Vltava or the Hungarian Palace overlooking the Danube. Don't forget as well that in the Cap era most players will take what they can get.

Kansas City is a joke. It's another Nashville. They could field a very good team like Nashville usually does and people would still be apathetic. I like the Preds, I like all the previously mentioned non-traditional market teams, except Fla, of course(Probably just out of some sort of solidarity since my team is one of them.) But come on, the team is ALWAYS in playoff contention and the team is ALWAYS on the brink of collapse because they can barely average, what, 75% capacity? Not to mention that KC would have the added problem of trying to compete with the Blues. Sure they're on the other side of the state, but I'd assume the Blues have built up a decent amount of fan support all over the Midwest. A second team would hurt the Blues, and the new team wouldn't be able to get enough support. Oy! Then you have the Blues and this new franchise in trouble. The only team KC ever supports, and will ever support, are the Chiefs. The Royals attendance is a joke and the teams from the NHL and NBA had to be relocated.

###### this has been a long Arse post. Sorry about that.

Cliffs:

Quebec City and Quebec as a whole would go bazoinkers for a team, KC would be another Nashville style purgatory. The real choices for new/relocated franchises would be in no particular order; Seattle, Las Vegas(won't happen), Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Quebec City. Seattle might be the best choice. They really go crazy over teams, just look at the Sounders. And that's soccer FFS! Plus they just lost their NBA team so they would be eager to attract a major sports franchise back to town. Plus if the Yotes fail they could move them there and most likely keep the divisions how they are...

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If they could drum up some corporate support

Good post and good points but as I and other have pointed out, this is really the KEY to the whole situation. The Buffalo Bills basically sell out every home game and yet their owner plays one home date a year in Toronto. Why? To start tapping into the corporate money that city has. Any calculation about a "new" venue for this league will take that heavily into account.

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Atilla, you could say that about Green Bay, but what you dont understand about the Green Bay market is that it just does not draw from only Green Bay. Its market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, not to mention fans only have to worry about 8 games to sell out a year, not 41. About the only way I could really seeing it work is exactly as you said it, pretty much get all of French Canada behind the team, and chip away at the Habs support a bit at a time, especially if they can field good teams.

I have always wondered why Seattle never got an NHL team, but I always thought that they would have to go through the Canucks first to get a team.

Edited by PYLrulz

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Atilla, you could say that about Green Bay, but what you dont understand about the Green Bay market is that it just does not draw from only Green Bay. Its market is essentially the entire state of Wisconsin, not to mention fans only have to worry about 8 games to sell out a year, not 41. About the only way I could really seeing it work is exactly as you said it, pretty much get all of French Canada behind the team, and chip away at the Habs support a bit at a time, especially if they can field good teams.

I have always wondered why Seattle never got an NHL team, but I always thought that they would have to go through the Canucks first to get a team.

The main reason Seattle never pushed for an NHL team is mainly no local ownership groups have thought to bring a team there and they would need a good home. Key Arena worked for the Thunderbirds but I don't think it would work for an NHL team. Though with the loss of the Sonics, things may change. I figure they will try to get an NBA team back first, but may look to the NHL as a backup plan.

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The main reason Seattle never pushed for an NHL team is mainly no local ownership groups have thought to bring a team there and they would need a good home. Key Arena worked for the Thunderbirds but I don't think it would work for an NHL team. Though with the loss of the Sonics, things may change. I figure they will try to get an NBA team back first, but may look to the NHL as a backup plan.

I always thought Seattle would be a good NHL market. Do you think the NBA arena where the Sonics were could be converted effectively for ice?

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I always thought Seattle would be a good NHL market. Do you think the NBA arena where the Sonics were could be converted effectively for ice?

I believe it already can, since a WHL team plays there currently I think.

If a team did move to Seattle, a team could probably play in Key Arena for a year or two while a new arena would be built

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I always thought Seattle would be a good NHL market. Do you think the NBA arena where the Sonics were could be converted effectively for ice?

Key Arena is where the Sonics played, and is where the Thunderbirds played until this season. Currently the only sports team that the venue hosts is the Seattle Storm of the WNBA. The arena was renovated in the early 90's and the renovations pretty much made it a basketball arena. Hockey can be very difficult to watch in the arena at times.

From an article about Key Arena and the Thunderbirds recent move to the Showare Center.

"Key Arena was ill-suited for hockey, as the sight lines were designed for basketball and the ice surface was so far off center that the scoreboard hung over the Thunderbirds' offensive zone instead of center ice."

It could probably be renovated again, but the fact that the city would not improve the arena is one of the reasons that the Sonics are gone, if it were to guarantee a sports franchise, they would probably look into the changes.

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Key Arena is where the Sonics played, and is where the Thunderbirds played until this season. Currently the only sports team that the venue hosts is the Seattle Storm of the WNBA. The arena was renovated in the early 90's and the renovations pretty much made it a basketball arena. Hockey can be very difficult to watch in the arena at times.

From an article about Key Arena and the Thunderbirds recent move to the Showare Center.

"Key Arena was ill-suited for hockey, as the sight lines were designed for basketball and the ice surface was so far off center that the scoreboard hung over the Thunderbirds' offensive zone instead of center ice."

It could probably be renovated again, but the fact that the city would not improve the arena is one of the reasons that the Sonics are gone, if it were to guarantee a sports franchise, they would probably look into the changes.

Many thanks for the insight! Its funny, I usually think of sports venues being able to support multiple sports but that stadium really seemed to be basketball specific. I don't know who is going to build a new arena (especially for hockey) in this economic environment other than Ballsillie.

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I would like Canada to get another team but i rather it be through expansion. The whole argument we need to support the teams we have now is worthless. You cant convince me that putting two more teams in a Canadian market that would sell out everynight, would be hurtful to the overall value of the league.

My ultimate desire would be for expanding the league to 32 teams with the two teams going to Canada. Then if teams need to be relocated, i prefer a suitable American market be tried if possible. On that note, I am very hopeful Phoenix keeps its team. The lease with Glendale was brutal when it was accepted and even more brutal now, it hasnt helped the Coyotes at all financially along with the horrid management decisions and coaching.

One thing i am overly sick of is the Anti-american, Canadian Entitlement to Hockey that has become the craze on TSN. Im not anti-Canadian in the least as i already wish Canada would get two more teams but like i said, Im about sick of hearing all of that junk during the whole Phoenix Debate and everytime an American Market is in financial trouble, (like everything else in the country isnt.) There is news today that the Blue Jackets are in financial trouble (Once again partly due to the lease and arena arrangements). There is already talks of the Quebec Blue Jackets and all that other crap.

I remember vaguely watching Quebec as a youngster and i vividly remember loving the Avalanche growing up. If Quebec could sustain it, i would love for them to get another team. I would really love to see that Quebec Nordiques Wolf jersey that never was.

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