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JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Nice meltdown guys. It has nothing to do with "outdated numbers", it's about getting it done when the season is on the line. Trout didn't do it, Cabrera did...Trout was clearly the MVP pick by everyone until September, but he blew it.

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Nice meltdown guys. It has nothing to do with "outdated numbers", it's about getting it done when the season is on the line. Trout didn't do it, Cabrera did...Trout was clearly the MVP pick by everyone until September, but he blew it.

Trout didn't blow anything. The Angels still finished with 89 wins compared to the Tigers' 88 wins. And the Angels played in a tougher division to boot.

If you want to talk about September... From the start to September to the end of the season, the Angels went 19-11. The Tigers went 18-13.

If you want to talk about a team blowing it, it was the White Sox who went 5-11 down the stretch to blow a 3 game division lead. That's the only reason the Tigers even made the playoffs. Trout was playing catch up all year. The Angels were 6-14 when they called him up and 83-59 (95-win pace) after. Trout was easily the MVP.

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But Trout was not as responsible for his teams success as Cabrera was, Trout was on a MUCH better team.

Cabrera accounted for a much larger part of his team's offense than Trout did. While Trout had a poor September his teammates picked up the slack. Cabrera could not afford to have any lulls in his season because he didn't have great teammates like Albert Pujols, Torii Hunter, Mark Trumbo, Erick Aybar and Kendrys Morales to bail him out...Cabrera only had Fielder and Austin Jackson.

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But Trout was not as responsible for his teams success as Cabrera was, Trout was on a MUCH better team.

Cabrera accounted for a much larger part of his team's offense than Trout did. While Trout had a poor September his teammates picked up the slack. Cabrera could not afford to have any lulls in his season because he didn't have great teammates like Albert Pujols, Torii Hunter, Mark Trumbo, Erick Aybar and Kendrys Morales to bail him out...Cabrera only had Fielder and Austin Jackson.

Trout's team finished with 1 more win. It's not like the Angels won 116 games and would have been great without him. They may have had more talent than Detroit on paper, but that's why they play the game. As for guys bailing people out in September (other than the White Sox bailing out the Tigers), Justin Verlander's 1.93 ERA in September, Max Scherzer's 2.17 ERA, and Doug Fister's 2.34 ERA seemed to pick up the Tigers just fine.

Trout was absolutely more responsible for his team's success compared to Cabrera. Dave Cameron and Nate Silver make pretty clear arguments. I'll let their words do the talking.

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The point I am trying to make is that there is no right or wrong answer. Both guys had incredible once in a lifetime years and it's just a shame they both had them in the same season. I don't see how anyone can condemn anyone for picking one over the other.

I know what it's like to get screwed out of an MVP season, I'm still bitter about Alan Trammell losing the MVP to George Bell in 1987, it's probably the only thing that has kept him out of the Hall of Fame (well that and the Shortstop position being reinvented in the nineties). It sucks when your guy loses so I can empathize.

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I'm not a fan of either the Angels or Tigers. I have nothing for or against Trout or Cabrera in my books in terms of being a fan. Neither is or isn't one of my guys. I enjoy watching Cabrera hit and I enjoy watching Trout play baseball.

That being said, I wouldn't call Cabrera's year once in a lifetime. Cabrera was better in 2011 than he was in 2012. It's not that he didn't have a great 2012, but it kind of ruins the once-in-a-lifetime part. See Manny Ramirez's 1999 season (44 HR, 165 RBI, .333 avg, 1.105 OPS) for a better season. Todd Helton's numbers in 2001 best Cabrera in all the categories Cabrera fans seem to care about (49 HR, 146 RBI, .336 avg, 1.116 OPS).

What Trout did was unprecedented. Find another player in baseball history who hit 30 HR, stole more than 40 bases, and hit better than a .315 batting average. Trout is the only one... ever. It adds to the unprecedented factor, but gets away from the big picture. Trout's 10 WAR is historically good. Cabrera's? Merely very good. But since people are rallying behind AVG/HR/RBI as the reason why Cabrera should win, why not look at AVG/HR/SB (a more relevant stat for a leadoff hitter like Trout than RBI) for Trout and realize that what he's done has never been done by anyone?

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But the debate is about who was most valuable to their team, not who had the best season. If Trout doesn't win the MVP it doesn't diminish his accomplishments. The vote has always been for the Most Valuable Player, not the Most Outstanding Player...if they wanted to vote on an MOP there's no doubt Trout would win it.

As far as the Manny and Helton seasons that you've mentioned, wouldn't you agree that pitching is MUCH better now than it was in 1998 and 2001? (and Coors Field is much more hitter friendly than Comerica Park)

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And as far as diminishing the RBI stat...I get what you're saying but to me the hardest thing to do in baseball is drive in a runner from scoring position. There is added pressure in those situations and it's incredibly difficult. It doesn't matter how many bases Trout steals if someone can't drive him home. If you want to compare batting averages with runners in scoring position then that is fine but to just say that driving in a run is not worth anything to me is not cool.

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Considering Trout had a more productive season on a team that won about the same number of games, I would argue he was more valuable. Trout was worth about 10 wins (on an 89 win team) to Cabrera's 7 wins (on an 88 win team). That makes Trout more valuable in my eyes.

Both had great seasons but I think Trout was more deserving (by a fair bit, too) as he had one of the best seasons ever. It's not that Cabrera's season wasn't worthy of an MVP, it's just that Trout's season was still somehow better. Regardless, I think we've hashed out our arguments so we'll probably have to politely agree to disagree.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Authentic Majestic Jose Reyes New York Mets White Pinstripe 1986 Throwback Jersey (Worn August 19th 2006)

IMG_8025.jpg

I picked up a jersey very similar to this one but it was a button down front.

Any Idea what year they wore it?

Same tagging,

Possible TBTC jersey from the mid 90's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140890349617?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's a few I just finished up.

First, quite possibly the rarest Tigers jersey of all. Worn for only one game in the 1995 season against the Boston Red Sox and the only alternate jersey Detroit has ever worn. Take a guess as to who is on it.

9951aRussellauthenticalternate-vi.jpg

9951bRussellauthenticalternate-vi.jpg

Next, a 1982 Brewers TBTC Ryan Braun jersey from this past season against St. Louis when both teams honored the 1982 World Series:

21aMasjesticauthenticthrowback-vi.jpg

21bMasjesticauthenticthrowback-vi.jpg

Then, a Baltimore Orioles 1997 road Cal Ripken Jr. jersey with the 200th anniversary of Baltimore and Jackie Robinson memorial patches:

lescirca19971aRussellauthentic-vi.jpg

lescirca19971bRussellauthentic-vi.jpg

I'm not crazy about this nameplate so I might switch it if I get the chance.

And finally, the oddest of the bunch, a Pittsburgh Pirates 2000 road Luis Sojo jersey with the Three Rivers Stadium farewell patch:

escirca20001aRawlingsauthentic-vi.jpg

escirca20001bRawlingsauthentic-vi.jpg

Any Yankees fan worth his salt will admit to loving Luis Sojo during his tenure. After wallowing away in Pittsburgh for part of the season that year, he was signed back onto the Yankees for the remainder of the season....and only managed to get the World Series-winning hit. A 15-hop dribbler up the middle off of Al Leiter's 142nd pitch in the top of the 9th inning in Game 5.

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  • 1 month later...

Nice Mets jersey. Who are you going to put on it? I still regret not picking up an Angels TATC jersey.

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  • 1 month later...

So that is what happens when Mexicans and Canadians have a disagreement. I always thought there would be more hockey sticks and sombreros involved.

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