Jump to content

Vintage Hockey Classics


redbeard3569

Recommended Posts

I think the Attorney General's primary goal was to put George Kuhn out of business so he couldn't rip off any future customers. And that's pretty much what happened when the judge ordering VHC to post a $30,000 before it could accept any more advance payments for jerseys.

Anything else, such as full or partial restitution for suckers like me who are still waiting for their jersey from VHC I suspect would be viewed by the AG's office as unexpected gravy in this case. And, really I have no problem with that. Getting a refund for the $203 jersey I ordered from George 14 months ago would be nice but it's more important in the overall scheme to put a stop to VHC's unacceptable business practices.

At the end of the day, I actually feel a little sorry for George. He did deliver on my initial order of two jerseys after a 16-month wait. So I've had a 3-year customer-distributor relation with George Kuhn. We talked several times on the phone and my assessment of this mess was he was at the mercy of the distributor who made his base jerseys.

He had no idea how long it would take to get the base jersey made and he had NO ability to speed up the process. Yet, instead of looking for another outlet to make his custom jersey orders, George continued to advertise 6-8 weeks delivery upon receipt of payment and he continued to take ordering knowing there was no way he make good on the 6-8 weeks delivery. In short, George go in over his head and rather than backing off and looking for another outlet to make his jerseys, he continued to accept the money.

And, George finally exhausted my patience and lost my support when he stopped returning my calls seeking an update on my latest order. I found his behavior very disappointing.

And, when it really hit the fan on his message board, with person after person after person venting their frustrations over George's failure to deliver their jersey(s), I quickly realized I was going to have to join the civil compaint by the New York Attorney General's office against VHC (which I learned about by reading the VHC complaints on this board) if I had any hope of every receiving my jersey or getting a refund.

Before joining the complaint, I actually left George a voice mail and sent him a follow-up e-mail explaining what I was going to do if I didn't get a response asap. I even offered to accept another jersey that George unsuccessfully attempted to sell on ebay. I told him if he sent me that jersey, I'd disappear and he'd have one less unsatisfied customer. He never responded.

So at the end of the day, George Kuhn got what he deserved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What he deserves is to be in prison for fraud, but apparently that isn't going to happen either. You know, small claims court would probably be the best way to go if anybody wants their money back. That or a class action lawsuit brought about by the parties he scammed, rather than the state AG's office, since they were obviously never looking to collect for anyone owed money on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely he should be in jail.

Being at the mercy of his jersey distributor is a BS excuse. You don't take people's money if you don't have the product and then STILL not give it back when you NEVER deliver on said product. If his distributor never gave it to him, then he didn't spend any of the money he was given on it.

The guy is a crook. And that was just a BS excuse to keep you coming back and deter you as long as possible.

It's a shame, but let's not give this guy even the slightest bit of credit. He's a crook. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a shame he couldn't deliver on what he offered, as his selection was unique and was trying to fill a void no one else was. The combination of the incomplete website and stolen photos to illustrate it were warning flags to me.

My first encounter with him was through ebay, so I at least had the confidence the jersey was in hand and waiting to be shipped. It was such a rare style I compromised and got a size that didn't fit me. It was after that transaction that I actually discovered his website and saw I could order one in my preferred size, so I sold the ebay one to fund my purchase of one made to order.

As I stated earlier in the this thread, I can't recall the complete timeline for my situation, but I believe it took me 8 months to get my jersey, which I was told would take 2 months. When it finally arrived, it was untagged and at least a size too small, as well as lacking any sleeve numbers!

I was still able to get responses from him via email and over the phone at the time. The process to get a refund from him took another month or so, but at least I came out relatively even.

Interesting to hear what finally happened with George, since I had my own dealings with him. Thanks for keeping us updated. I was on the verge of posting this info on my blog while his site was still up, but was waiting for the resolution of this case, during which his website vanished.

Looks like in the end, I should have kept the ebay jersey, despite some accuracy issues with the order of the accented and non-accented letters in the name, and paid to have it altered smaller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeff, I enjoy reading your blog. I always find good/interesting reading/pictures in there.

In hindsight, I wish you had put a VHC alert in there. It probably would have helped grease the skids and gotten George out of business a little quicker.

I had the same problems with the first two jerseys I bought from George.

Both had a couple of errors (missing shoulder number, wrong font in the crest, missing captain's C, etc.) that indicated a definite lack of attention to detail. But, after waiting 16 months, there was no way I was going to return them to George to get the errors fixed. I paid a local needle and thread lady a few extra bucks to make the fixes.

And, as far as I'm concerned, it's the attention to details, or lack thereof, that can make or break a custom replica.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I got a letter today from the Office of the New York Attorney General (OAG), updating its civil complaint against George Kuhn, aka James Heim, and Vintage Hockey Classics.

I’ll summarize by saying don’t hold your breath waiting for a refund check.

Karen Davis, OAG senior consumer frauds representative, Bureau of Consumer Frauds and Protection, writes:

"As I think you are aware, the OAG sued George Kuhn … and obtained a judgment against him requiring that he provide consumers with the jerseys he owes them or refunds. Mr. Kuhn did not do so and the OAG returned to court and obtained a money judgment against him.

"Speaking frankly, it will be difficult to execute this money against Mr. Kuhn because he has no known assets and works only sporadically.

"Some consumers have asked if Mr. Kuhn can be prosecuted criminally. The OAG is not a criminal prosecution agency; that matter would be handled by the Erie County District Attorney. Based on our experience, however, we think it would be unlikely that the Erie County District Attorney would do so. Because Mr. Kuhn delivered jerseys to many consumers, we think it would be the opinion of the Erie County DA that it could not sustain a conviction against him.

" We will continue to seek restitution for consumers and will notify you in writing if there are any new developments."

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I had several telephone conversations with George Kuhn during the 16 months it took VHC to deliver my first jersey order. During these conversations, I heard George’s explanation and excuses for the excessive delay. I been waiting over 14 months for a second order from VHC.

I know George worked as a freelance (part-time employee) sports writer for a Buffalo area sports and leisure magazine. He also once told me he was a lawyer. That was either bs or George is no better at lawyering that he was running a custom hockey jersey business.

And, while I don’t feel entirely comfortable labeling George a thief, his picture should be in the dictionary next to the definition of "deadbeat."

Since I got into the hobby of collecting hockey jerseys about five years ago, I’ve dealt with literally dozens of different vendors via their Web sites and ebay. While some were better than others, I can say all were honest --- except George Kuhn and Vintage Hockey Classics.

Live and learn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 years later...

This guy is still "selling" jerseys.  https://www.vintagehockeyjerseys.net/ is his site.  Wow, I somehow doubt he put up a $30,000 bond.  If you search the phone number on that website, it comes back to George Kuhn.  Out of curiosity I Googled this dude and found a bad review on the BBB website for this web site and George Kuhn. 

 

 https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/tonawanda/profile/sports-memorabilia/niagara-frontier-sports-0041-235967282/details

 

He apparently has scammed someone as recently as July from that review.  

 

https://www.facebook.com/Vintage-Hockey-Jerseysnet-220602642133/

 

Even has a Facebook page.  You'd think he would have learned his lesson.  BTW, he doesn't put his name anywhere on these pages.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy thread revival. I had not read all this bad info about George.

I do not know him from a hole in the ground, but he posts 24/7 on FB vintage hockey pics, newspaper clippings, and great info/stories to go along with them.

I've even posted on FB at one point that he's a good follow because of all the great pics/stories.

Oh man, cancel culture, I should go back delete my posts ;)

Good to know, thx for this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...