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foppa21

Customization Frustration

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How accurate do you guys expect customization to be from non-official sources? Reason I am asking is I got a bunch of jerseys done up by EPS and I am very unsatisfied with the work they did on my jerseys. I gave them detailed instructions, pictures on all jerseys and they seem to not have followed them. I understand small font discrepancies, but I'm talking about not getting the proper nameplate material, spacing between numbers very noticeably off, crooked numbers, etc. Also, when I inquired to make sure a small detail in a number font will be done correctly, Josh simply said they are already done and are incorrect, but the problem is not with them, it's the original font creators that are horrible at their work. He said they can fix it for me, but I will have to pay an extra $40 per jersey to change two small arm numbers. I am extremely frustrated, but I know that I should always try to go to official customizers, but I sent in 7 jerseys, and all 7 jerseys weren't done up properly despite detailed pictures and instructions and then when I ask for a change, they tell me that they're right and the original customizers are in the wrong and I would have to pay to get the "wrong" specs.

I have yet to e-mail Josh again, as I wanted to post here and get all of your opinions first... If I am being unreasonable I will not message Josh but I am definitely very unsatisfied with the work they did for me. Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry that I don't have full pictures yet, but I will post some pics as soon as I get a chance.

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You paid them for the work and you have a reasonable expectation that it should be done according to the specs you provided

You went out of your way to tell them how they should be done (kind of like special instructions on an order you would place at a retailer) and if ignored, should be dealt with

Bottom line, It is not unreasonable.

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First time dealing with Josh I take it?

Anyways, without seeing pictures all I can tell you is when you send stuff to anybody who is not the original source you have to expect some variances. You can send all the pictures and write all the notes you want but these places cannot AND will not spend the time to study over all your pictures and notes making sure every little minute detail is accurate. This is not to single out EPS or yourself but any customizer will just call up whatever they have on file for the jersey you send in, send that to their cutter and sew in onto your jersey. These are businesses and obviously they just cannot afford to spend the time needed to modifying their font packages and ensure everything is an exact match to the pictures you send in.

If your stuff is close then I would just live with what you have. Obviously, pictures would give us a better idea of work EPS did.

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The answer is, if you need 100% accuracy, go to the original source.

I've heard that logic from Josh before, I'm not entirely sure what he means. I believe him to mean there are "official" specs, the original customizers don't follow them 100%, and that makes 100% accuracy on his end difficult.

But I'm not sure. I've always been happy with their work, with the exception of a misplaced Captain's C. In that instance he offered a fix, but I sold it.

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Josh is sort of short in his email responses from what I've noticed, but I've never really had an issue so it never bothered me. Maybe giving them a call would be better, it's a lot easier to work things out that way.

But yeah I would be frustrated.

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More than one customizer has told me that there is a file they get from the NHL/NHLPA regarding the specs of each team's customization and every single one has told me that the file is more often wrong than right. Therefore if you go through a customizer who is not the team customizer, they are basing everything off an incorrect file and/or photos of the jerseys which can be tough to do.

Not excusing the work but I think I can somewhat understand where EPS and Josh are coming from. No matter how detailed you can be going through someone who is not the team customizer runs these risks.

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Not surprising. I provided a reference jersey once asking to replicate the same materials, and instead of navy blue twill, got black. Response from Josh was "its close enough".

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More than one customizer has told me that there is a file they get from the NHL/NHLPA regarding the specs of each team's customization and every single one has told me that the file is more often wrong than right. Therefore if you go through a customizer who is not the team customizer, they are basing everything off an incorrect file and/or photos of the jerseys which can be tough to do.

Not excusing the work but I think I can somewhat understand where EPS and Josh are coming from. No matter how detailed you can be going through someone who is not the team customizer runs these risks.

Exactly, the official customized doesn't necessarily follow the published specs. Without exact measurements, I don't think the non-official customized could ever be "100% accurate".

Navy blue twill replaced with black? That's ridiculous, and I find it hard to believe EPS doesn't have navy twill. They have had every obscure nameplate material I've ever asked for, with the exception of white ultrafil which they ran out of. That sounds like justification for a mistake that was made.

Personally, I would NEVER want to be a customizer for us picky bitches.

Edited by mfitz804

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Personally, I would NEVER want to be a customizer for us picky bitches.

Here here. We collectors are the embodiment of the 80-20 rule.

It's too bad to hear another field report to do with inaccuracy, but it's more reason to try to group your jerseys by supplier, and not go for the one-stop shop.

It's not unreasonable to ask for a re-do if you're unsatisfied, but it sounds like it's beyond the supplier's scope to try to match the specs you give them. Personally, I've found it completely useless to give a spec sheet or a photo reference for a supplier to replicate, because they just use what they have on file.

Like the other members have noted, most NHL sanctioned suppliers use the default group of fonts that the league gives to them. And to modify a font means having to bring in an artist to manipulate the letters and numbers, which of course takes time and money. If you're a team and are willing to pay the art fee to have a custom set made, that's one thing, but most of us are not that.

Sometimes their stuff is the exact same as the product supplied to the team (WSH, NJD, NSH, etc), other times, it is not. Hence why I and others bang on about team suppliers and original sources. The exception to the whole "team source" mantra is if the team uses the exact same default kit that the league gives to the suppliers. I can't think of a particular example, but it's not unheard of.

As for crooked placement or skipped stitches and things of that nature, it does happen, and it often makes it to the field/ice, so I wouldn't fret there. The nameplate topic is often debated, and I'm one to say "if it's been used for a gamer, it's the right material". Heck, the Calgary Flames have used Starter Knit for nameplates on their Edge jerseys. Only 16 years out of style!

Only if it's a major error like misspelling would it be totally justified to send it back. I've sent back a couple shirts that had the font from the wrong year, and was fortunate that the supplier was willing to replace the numbers at no cost to me. But, it's not always the case.

So you'll have to ask yourself, is the juice worth the squeeze? If the people you're working with aren't willing to re-do your shirts because the scope of their services doesn't extend to matching other suppliers' work, would it be worth your while to argue that they should? Do you think they'll budge? And even if they agree to re-do the work at no cost to you, it might sour your working relationship with them because you'll be "high-maintenance" or "too picky". So you'll have to weigh the pros and cons, if you even get to that point.

Other members can chime in, but I've read some other topics to say that this supplier doesn't see the need to do work beyond applying what kits they have, and isn't particularly willing to re-do work that they see as satisfactory.

Sorry for the essay, but I wanted to touch all the bases here. Happy to hear where I might be mistaken or mislead.

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Well, yea, like others have said, if you want accuracy, you basically just have to suck it up and pay for it. Don't try to save $10-20 on shipping by sending all of your jerseys to a place that doesn't actually customize them. They're all provided with "correct fonts" but they're not necessarily correct, and it's not up to them to alter those for you (it's more complicated than it sounds).

However, the issue of them basically blowing you off and acting like it's "good enough" is disconcerting, especially for things like crooked numbers.

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Foppa -- what team or teams' jerseys are you dissatisfied with?

It would be very beneficial to see pics if possible to let the respective team experts here weigh in with their team-specific thoughts in order to help provide you with more specific counsel.

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So I got 4 Team Canada jerseys out, all I specifically asked if he could replicate the numbers, he said he can and that's their job to match... I inquired down the road and he says that they didn't end up doing it how I asked but if I'd like to get it the "wrong" way, I can pay $40 for each small number that I wanted to have stripped and done up "incorrectly".

One jersey has a wrong nameplate colour, red vs burgundy basically.

Other 2 jerseys I had problems with were Avalanche jerseys, both spaced really close, and the numbers for both were crooked, one even had the nameplate crooked with the numbers as well.

Last jersey I had asked specifically for Edge material and he said he would make sure it's Edge. And it comes back with twill

Now I know why they charge $20 PER proof picture if you want to see your jerseys before being shipped out. He knows shipping is ridiculous outside of US and that I'm more than likely not going to ship it back to have things corrected, but even so... he has the nerve to tell me I HAVE TO PAY TO FIX THEIR ADMITTED MISTAKES!! I know most of you are saying "if you want it exact, then go to the team customizer", but will you be singing the same song when your jerseys come back crooked? When you ask if they can match a specific detail and they promise that they can do it 100% because that is their job??? And then when they make a mistake, they blame another company and say they're right and the best at what they do?!?

wxadMMx.jpg?1

This was his response to fixing the mistakes he acknowledges himself:

Ben,

I cannot do this type of work for you. I am not going to be fixing any of this. You can pay for changes and we will do our best. I think it’s best for us to part ways as your customizer.

This guy is such a scum... I'm furious at myself for paying through PayPal balance as PayPal will most likely side with them since they bring PayPal way more money than I do.

Edited by foppa21

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So I got 4 Team Canada jerseys out, all I specifically asked if he could replicate the numbers, he said he can and that's they're job to match... I inquired down the road and he says that they didn't end up doing it how I asked but if I'd like to get it the "wrong" way, I can pay $40 for each small number that I wanted to have stripped and done up "incorrectly".

One jersey has a wrong nameplate colour, red vs burgundy basically.

Other 2 jerseys I had problems with were Avalanche jerseys, both spaced really close, and the numbers for both were crooked, one even had the nameplate crooked with the numbers as well.

Last jersey I had asked specifically for Edge material and he said he would make sure it's Edge. And it comes back with twill

Now I know why they charge $20 PER proof picture if you want to see your jerseys before being shipped out. He knows shipping is ridiculous outside of US and that I'm more than likely not going to ship it back to have things corrected, but even so... he has the nerve to tell me I HAVE TO PAY TO FIX THEIR ADMITTED MISTAKES!! I know most of you are saying "if you want it exact, then go to the team customizer", but will you be singing the same song when your jerseys come back crooked? When you ask if they can match a specific detail and they promise that they can do it 100% because that is their job??? And then when they make a mistake, they blame another company and say they're right and the best at what they do?!?

This was his response to fixing the mistakes he acknowledges himself:

Ben,

I cannot do this type of work for you. I am not going to be fixing any of this. You can pay for changes and we will do our best. I think it’s best for us to part ways as your customizer.

This guy is such a scum... I'm furious at myself for paying through PayPal balance as PayPal will most likely side with them since they bring PayPal way more money than I do.

Using materials other than what was requested (without first saying "I ran out of x, is it ok if we use y") or putting things on crooked is not acceptable from any customizer. If you were talking about minute differences in size, etc. in the way the kit was cut, I'd say go to the original customizer if you want it 100% authentic. The other stuff, that was all stuff that should have been easily under their control and if I were you, I would be pissed too.

That being said, I don't understand the response you got as it says at least three different things: they can't do it, they won't do it, or they will do it if you pay.

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Yes, I don't quite understand his message, but don't intend in ever dealing or talking with him again. I'm trying to get some money back through PayPal to at least help me have all my kits resewn.

Regardless, I appreciate everyone's input and I'm sorry for my rant. I am not even as frustrated necessarily with their work, but Josh's attitude.

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I had similar issues with EPS and Josh way back when, before I just decided it's not worth the hassle of hoping it's done right in order to save a few bucks.

I have a tough time accepting the argument that we make up such a small fraction of their business. It's not an excuse, we're still paying customers. And by simply blaming everyone and their mother for all issues raised despite guarantees/pictures/etc, it's poor business

Moral of the story. Stay away from them unless they customize the on ice jerseys and/or you have seen photos of prior work and you're satisfied with how it looks.

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I have had great experiences, but 80% of mine are Devils which are EPS jerseys so no issue.

That being said, when they sewed a captain's C to my Toews 2015 ASG on the wrong side, that was the NHL's fault. I really didn't expect to have to tell them where the C goes on a current jersey, and I even forgot myself until someone here reminded me.

That being said, he said I could send it back any time and he'd fix it. I sold it instead. Whether that repair would have been free I can't be sure, but he didn't quote a price, just "send it back and we'll fix it".

He doesn't have much of a "bedside manner" so to speak, but I am sure he has been tortured for years by the likes of us. As I said, some irregularities I can understand, but crooked numbers or the wrong color material, that's just nuts.

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Holy crap! I was looking at that picture and trying to figure out what the issue was...until I focused on the Reebok patch! That's absolutely incredible.

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Might i suggest sending Josh an envelope full of glitter? Lol

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Holy crap! I was looking at that picture and trying to figure out what the issue was...until I focused on the Reebok patch! That's absolutely incredible.

I did the same thing.

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So I got 4 Team Canada jerseys out, all I specifically asked if he could replicate the numbers, he said he can and that's their job to match... I inquired down the road and he says that they didn't end up doing it how I asked but if I'd like to get it the "wrong" way, I can pay $40 for each small number that I wanted to have stripped and done up "incorrectly".

One jersey has a wrong nameplate colour, red vs burgundy basically.

Other 2 jerseys I had problems with were Avalanche jerseys, both spaced really close, and the numbers for both were crooked, one even had the nameplate crooked with the numbers as well.

Last jersey I had asked specifically for Edge material and he said he would make sure it's Edge. And it comes back with twill

Now I know why they charge $20 PER proof picture if you want to see your jerseys before being shipped out. He knows shipping is ridiculous outside of US and that I'm more than likely not going to ship it back to have things corrected, but even so... he has the nerve to tell me I HAVE TO PAY TO FIX THEIR ADMITTED MISTAKES!! I know most of you are saying "if you want it exact, then go to the team customizer", but will you be singing the same song when your jerseys come back crooked? When you ask if they can match a specific detail and they promise that they can do it 100% because that is their job??? And then when they make a mistake, they blame another company and say they're right and the best at what they do?!?

wxadMMx.jpg?1

This was his response to fixing the mistakes he acknowledges himself:

Ben,

I cannot do this type of work for you. I am not going to be fixing any of this. You can pay for changes and we will do our best. I think it’s best for us to part ways as your customizer.

This guy is such a scum... I'm furious at myself for paying through PayPal balance as PayPal will most likely side with them since they bring PayPal way more money than I do.

Judging by that response and the tasks you gave them with the info you provided. I'm never going to use them, ever.

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Judging by that response and the tasks you gave them with the info you provided. I'm never going to use them, ever.

I'm just really surprised, I've had them do 20+ jerseys for me (maybe 30), and I have NEVER seen a placement issue like that. That's just horrible. You have every reason to be upset. You might get a quote from another source as to how much it will cost to fix, maybe that will assist your PayPal claim.

That's not a "the blue layer us supposed to be exactly 4.256 millimeters wide and yours is only 4" issue, that's just a complete swing and miss the lines of which I have never seen, especially not from EPS.

Do you have more pictures? That's definitely not just laying funny?

Edited by mfitz804

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Yea using the wrong material, a different material than was promised, and crooked numbers is in no way something that he should just get to slide on. He owes you a refund for that no doubt. That's ridiculous.

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It makes me want to go through my closet and see if I have a clunker that I missed.

I don't believe I do.

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Yea using the wrong material, a different material than was promised, and crooked numbers is in no way something that he should just get to slide on. He owes you a refund for that no doubt. That's ridiculous.

Yeah, I'm with him. I didn't realize the severity of all this, nor them saying they were willing to match. Hopefully you can sort it out with PayPal.

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