LAK74 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Are you expecting yours back from EPS anytime soon? Lol, are you kidding? I'm still waiting on my previous order from the first week of December! My ASG order was received by EPS in mid-February, so I'm not expecting them back for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM7392 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Sorry, for some reason I forgot the jerseys were only first available like 2 months ago. You'll have them by next year's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousd Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Wondering if the kiss cut black layer is the same stuff as the black on the crest. It's very clearly just black in normal light, but any flash or anything and it lights right up. I mean, that would make the most sense out of all this, and it certainly complicates the decision on what to go with. That has to be the reason for the kiss cut layer on the gamers. Funny how complicated this has gotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 See, that might look really wrong though. With the kiss cut layer as wide as it is, you would either need an extremely wide stitch, or two stitches running on both edges. I think one layer sublimated with the one outside stitch would look way more authentic than that. Yeah that makes sense. I hope to hear back from Josh today, whatever he tells me I'll post to this thread, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdems93 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I talked to the seller of the hall gamer. And asked for better pictures of the numbers in both flash and non flash conditions. He said sure so hopefully I'll have something to provide today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Josh's response was simply that EPS will be doing them the way they were worn on the ice. He didn't elaborate as to whether that was sublimated or otherwise. As I don't know if he was intentionally vague, and I don't want to bother him too much, I am going to leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGagner Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I never saw any reflection of the numbers, but I barely saw it on the crests either and they definitely are reflective. It was only during the intros that I noticed it at all, with the multiple spotlights sometimes catching it correctly. Look at the pictures I posted here, about halfway down the page: http://forums.icejerseys.com/index.php?showtopic=6079&&page=424 Wondering if the kiss cut black layer is the same stuff as the black on the crest. It's very clearly just black in normal light, but any flash or anything and it lights right up. I mean, that would make the most sense out of all this, and it certainly complicates the decision on what to go with. Yes, the black on the numbers is the same reflective material used on the front crest. They probably only heat pressed it as to not perf the material too much, just a guess, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM7392 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Josh's response was simply that EPS will be doing them the way they were worn on the ice. He didn't elaborate as to whether that was sublimated or otherwise. As I don't know if he was intentionally vague, and I don't want to bother him too much, I am going to leave it at that. That's too bad. Until I know for sure what he'd be doing to my $300+ jersey, it's not going there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMLFAN Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 If EPS didn't do the game jerseys and if the black material is the same special reflective stuff as used on the front crest I don't think they would have the material on hand and I don't think they would order it in just to do a few non team customer orders. My guess is they'll either just do one layer sublimated or two layer but the black layer will just be regular black twill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAK74 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I'm pretty sure I got this picture off JB's listing a while ago when he first started offering John Scott lettered ASG jerseys. It appears that the number has the gold and black portions sublimated together, but they left an untreated black strip on the perimeter of the twill where the stitching would have gone. He has since removed and replaced this photo, and if you look at the listing now, you can't see that untreated black area any more! Of course this has nothing to do with how EPS will do their version of the numbers, but I thought it was kind of interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 If EPS didn't do the game jerseys and if the black material is the same special reflective stuff as used on the front crest I don't think they would have the material on hand and I don't think they would order it in just to do a few non team customer orders. My guess is they'll either just do one layer sublimated or two layer but the black layer will just be regular black twill Josh said to me that they have the correct materials, I even specifically asked about the reflective. Though he didn't specifically address that, I would assume from his response that everything would be as it was on-ice and from prior dealings that he had the correct material. I don't believe he would have told me that if he was substituting regular twill. I'm pretty sure I got this picture off JB's listing a while ago when he first started offering John Scott lettered ASG jerseys. It appears that the number has the gold and black portions sublimated together, but they left an untreated black strip on the perimeter of the twill where the stitching would have gone. He has since removed and replaced this photo, and if you look at the listing now, you can't see that untreated black area any more! Of course this has nothing to do with how EPS will do their version of the numbers, but I thought it was kind of interesting. This actually makes a lot more sense to me, especially since the trend the last few years has been one layer sublimated numbers on the All Star jerseys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAK74 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 On second thought, that black area with the line dividing both sections looks way too wide. Maybe they just trimmed off that bare twill area before stitching it onto the jersey, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 On second thought, that black area with the line dividing both sections looks way too wide. Maybe they just trimmed off that bare twill area before stitching it onto the jersey, I don't know. Compared to the Hall gamer, it doesn't look like the Hall has an untreated edge. I still suspect that the gamers have sublimated one layer numbers, but I haven't seen one in person as others in this thread have said they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAK74 Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Hall gamer definitely doesn't have an untreated edge. I made the mistake of thinking that the JB number was finished, but it couldn't have been because there is way too much black showing. They would have had to cut off the untreated area after the picture was taken, before the number could be applied to a jersey. Trying to figure out how they cut the on-ice numbers is making my head explode. Normally when you kiss-cut a number like this, you just stack the black layer on top of the gold layer, let the laser make a pass over, then peel off the center black section to reveal the gold layer underneath. But the gold layer has sublimated striping on it, so how do you pre-position the black layer over the gold area so that the stripes are positioned correctly before you make the cut? Or do they cut the 2-layer assembly first, and then sublimate the stripes onto the gold layer AFTER the black strip has been cut? Junkyard, where are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khabbi Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Well, I have a 2016 All-Star with EPS currently being done, and I'm very interested in this. I am confident they will get it right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 The Hall gamer definitely doesn't have an untreated edge. I made the mistake of thinking that the JB number was finished, but it couldn't have been because there is way too much black showing. They would have had to cut off the untreated area after the picture was taken, before the number could be applied to a jersey. Trying to figure out how they cut the on-ice numbers is making my head explode. Normally when you kiss-cut a number like this, you just stack the black layer on top of the gold layer, let the laser make a pass over, then peel off the center black section to reveal the gold layer underneath. But the gold layer has sublimated striping on it, so how do you pre-position the black layer over the gold area so that the stripes are positioned correctly before you make the cut? Or do they cut the 2-layer assembly first, and then sublimate the stripes onto the gold layer AFTER the black strip has been cut? Junkyard, where are you? I have yet to see a single picture that looks like anything other than 1 layer sublimation, which would also explain the stitching on the Hall gamer only being on one edge. I haven't seen them in person, I know people say they have seen them and they are two layer, but I just don't see any evidence of that in any pictures I have seen so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted1025 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Josh's response was simply that EPS will be doing them the way they were worn on the ice. He didn't elaborate as to whether that was sublimated or otherwise. As I don't know if he was intentionally vague, and I don't want to bother him too much, I am going to leave it at that. Isn't his job at EPS being a customer service rep? It's his job to answer these questions no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAK74 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I have yet to see a single picture that looks like anything other than 1 layer sublimation, which would also explain the stitching on the Hall gamer only being on one edge. I haven't seen them in person, I know people say they have seen them and they are two layer, but I just don't see any evidence of that in any pictures I have seen so far. In the last picture of the Hall gamer on eBay, you can see the camera flash light up a small area of the right side of the sleeve #4. The reflectivity of that black area is much higher than the gold area immediately adjacent to it, which suggests a different material. Of course had I not known about the 2 layers, I might not even have noticed that, but I can now see how there would be a kiss-cut layer of that black reflective material. Edited March 22, 2016 by LAK74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 In the last picture of the Hall gamer on eBay, you can see the camera flash light up a small area of the right side of the sleeve #4. The reflectivity of that black area is much higher than the gold area immediately adjacent to it, which suggests a different material. Of course had I not known about the 2 layers, I might not even have noticed that, but I can now see how there would be a kiss-cut layer of that black reflective material. Or, perhaps the sublimation of the gold color into the black material (or vice versa, however its done) resulted in a different level of reflectiveness. On the other hand, I feel like that picture is close enough that you would be able to see at least a slight height differential between the two layers if it was not sublimated. But I don't see that at all, it seems 100% smooth and uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM7392 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I get where mfitz is coming from though. Is it possible the outer black part is just I guess coated with something that makes it reflective? I don't know enough about the workings of twill and sublimation to know if that's possible or not, but I could see that being the case also. I have no idea at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 I get where mfitz is coming from though. Is it possible the outer black part is just I guess coated with something that makes it reflective? I don't know enough about the workings of twill and sublimation to know if that's possible or not, but I could see that being the case also. I have no idea at this point. I suspect the entire black material has that reflective property, and the yellow ink sublimated over it either greatly reduces or eliminates that property. That's why the yellow part doesn't look as shiny as yellow twill would have. That's my theory, anyhow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAK74 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Or, perhaps the sublimation of the gold color into the black material (or vice versa, however its done) resulted in a different level of reflectiveness I suspect the entire black material has that reflective property, and the yellow ink sublimated over it either greatly reduces or eliminates that property. That's why the yellow part doesn't look as shiny as yellow twill would have I don't think lighter colors are sublimated onto black material; rather, colors are sublimated onto a white substrate, as far as I know. Edited March 22, 2016 by LAK74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) I don't think lighter colors are sublimated onto black material; rather, colors are sublimated onto a white substrate, as far as I know. That would make a lot more sense. But it still looks more like one consistent piece of material to me. Which, incidentally, is in keeping with the last few ASG's which had jerseys featuring one layer sublimated numbers as well. Oh, and hats off to you for using a fancy word like "substrate"! Edited March 22, 2016 by mfitz804 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyGagner Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 They are TWO layers. The gold layer is sublimated, the black reflective is kiss-cut on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfitz804 Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 They are TWO layers. The gold layer is sublimated, the black reflective is kiss-cut on top. If that's the case, I would have expected them to sew it rather than just heat press it. And none of the pictures I have seen show any evidence to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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