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London Knights Accused of Auctioning Off Fake Game Worn Jersey(s)


Devilsguy

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3 minutes ago, mfitz804 said:

The only picture I saw of the jersey he received doesn't show the A. If the placement is different, pretty obvious its a different jersey, unless Marner had the A removed at some point during the season and then was given it back. Even still, there would be evidence of it having been moved as we all know. There would be similar evidence of the removal of the Memorial Cup patch. 

The listing does say it was worn "throughout" the "entire season", so the buyer has that going for him as well, subject to the stuff I said above about showing there was only one set and no playoff set.4

It will be pretty easy for the buyer to prove his case that its not the jersey in the listing. He may also be able to prove that its not a legit game worn. 

For me, this matter comes down to one thing at this point. How much is he willing to accept, and what will the Knights offer. If they already offered him a refund, and they offered to get the other jersey back from the HHOF (which I assume DOES match the one in the listing?), then he's probably just looking to cash in.

And, I wonder how much is he paying his lawyer to pursue this matter? If someone contacted me for representation with the same set of circumstances, I probably wouldn't even take the case. The odds of the buyer "winning" back just the money he paid is very high. I wouldn't enter into litigation like this on a contingency basis, because 1/3 of $3,510 (or $4,000 as its reported elsewhere) is nowhere near enough money to make business sense. And it wouldn't make sense from the buyer's perspective to pay a lawyer hourly to pursue the case, unless he's just super rich and trying to prove a point.

I probably would send such a client to small claims court ($5,000 limit in NY, but no lawyer required). He'd probably get the $5k and be done with it.

 

Not sure if this was posted but here is the article about this from the Star which is a bit more comprehensive:

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/23/fraud-allegations-around-mitch-marner-shirt-raise-questions-about-sports-memorabilia.html

Also shows the placement of the A in the jersey he got in a pic about halfway down the article.  Comparing the placement of it to the CCM logo above it and the jersey shown in the listing, they are not a match.  Apparently the jersey in the HHOF right now matches the listing, so I think he will be able to prove pretty easily that the jersey in the listing is the one in the HHOF and the one he has is not the one.  Also the wear shown in the pictures is comical and doesn't match any sort of wear pattern I have ever seen before.

As for the $ amount, yeah you can def argue that he (and/or his lawyer) are seeking to cash in on this.  However I wonder if he wouldn't have pursued this if the team didn't give him the run-around stated in the article and were a little more clear with him from the get-go that they would try to make it right rather than finally getting a fire under their asses after he got a lawyer (and that was about 2 months after the auction listing ended).  He won't get the $100K he is asking (and he shouldn't), but he will probably get some sort of punitive damages and some heads will probably roll at the Knights organization.

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Some punitive damages could be awarded since I think he could prove the fraud. If I were deciding based on everything we know thus far, I'd award him double. But he'd have to return the jersey. 

Now, if he gets into an economic analysis of the future value, that's where he can bump that money up. But I don't know if he'll go that route or having gone that route, if he would be successful. 

But from the Plaintiff's perspective, that's how I'd do it. 

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1 hour ago, mfitz804 said:

Still, not worth $100,000 and the guy is making a money grab. He should just take his money back, or take them up on their offer to retrieve the original from the HHOF, and call it a day. 

I agree.  I think that the guy is being a little greedy here.  Either get your money back or get the jersey you paid for.  The latter is basically an admission of guilt on the Knights' part anyway.  Why go through all this litigation and spend potentially unrecoverable money when in the end all you really want is that jersey, right?

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On a fraud case, he could conceivably recover his attorneys' fees. No guarantee, of course, but at least here in NY, the Judge has the discretion to award reasonable attorneys' fees. 

The "reasonable" will be where he runs into an issue. 

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The team might have attached some sort of conditions for getting the actual jersey from the HHOF, so even if he took them up on the offer he might be SOL on the legal fees (which he shouldn't have had to pay given that this was pretty clear cut fraud on the team's behalf) and possibly more.

I don't even think Scott and his lawyers are expecting to get $100k, so I don't know why everyone is so hung up on it. :lol:

 

 

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2 hours ago, guam64 said:

The team might have attached some sort of conditions for getting the actual jersey from the HHOF, so even if he took them up on the offer he might be SOL on the legal fees (which he shouldn't have had to pay given that this was pretty clear cut fraud on the team's behalf) and possibly more.

I don't even think Scott and his lawyers are expecting to get $100k, so I don't know why everyone is so hung up on it. :lol:

Clearly they aren't expecting $100k, because if you are, you sue for a million. 

He may be SOL on the legal fees in any type of settlement, its highly unlikely that any settlement would include an award for attorneys' fees. In NY, you can only get that if the case goes to trial and a Judge, in his discretion, grants it to you. I've never had a case settle where attorneys' fees were specifically included. 

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lol there is a part of me that really wonders if this ever goes in front of a judge (I doubt it will) what he/she would think when reading the statements and hearing the case.  I know judges are impartial (in a vast majority of cases), but I wish I could read their thoughts about hearing a case like this.   I could imagine it is "what a bunch of geeks arguing over used, sweaty clothing of other men"

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31 minutes ago, Devilsguy said:

lol there is a part of me that really wonders if this ever goes in front of a judge (I doubt it will) what he/she would think when reading the statements and hearing the case.  I know judges are impartial (in a vast majority of cases), but I wish I could read their thoughts about hearing a case like this.   I could imagine it is "what a bunch of geeks arguing over used, sweaty clothing of other men"

Its what our site is founded on!!!

In some respects, its already in front of a judge because a lawsuit has been filed. But will there be a trial? Probably not, these things usually get worked out. Especially where the actual money in controversy (not the $100k sued for) is so small, nobody is going to want to pay lawyers and experts and such over a $4,000 jersey. 

Unless, of course, the buyer is rich and has "F.U." money, in which case, anything goes. 

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14 minutes ago, CJ Matthews said:

Is he a robot in disguise?

That is an awesome reference, sir. 

And wouldn't you like to know!

*Turns into a jet and flies away*

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9 minutes ago, Brilliant! said:

In that case, I have to know....Starscream, Thundercracker or Skywarp???

GREATEST. COMMENT. EVARRRRR!!!

(Dirge perhaps?)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh, I'm sure most do fall off after going through the washing machine. Obviously I'm not trying to defend what was done here but the point remains that it DOES happen. All I meant is that I've seen examples where the jersey WAS washed but the tag still stayed.

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  • 5 months later...

I have always believed that minor and junior teams have done this for the longest time.  The amount of jerseys these teams pump out, especially the ones with the tons of specialty night jerseys, and their stuff always seem to have some decent wear even for one game wonders.

Didn't the Providence Bruins get caught several times or highly suspected of to this day of shill bidding on their jersey auctions?

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15 minutes ago, Devilsguy said:

I have always believed that minor and junior teams have done this for the longest time.  The amount of jerseys these teams pump out, especially the ones with the tons of specialty night jerseys, and their stuff always seem to have some decent wear even for one game wonders.

Didn't the Providence Bruins get caught several times or highly suspected of to this day of shill bidding on their jersey auctions?

And Lehigh Valley, and at least one other team recently that escapes me at the moment.  I've heard the argument that what's happening is a bunch of fans went and created accounts after hearing at the game that the special gamers would be sold on ebay.  I don't buy it.  1) ebay has been around for over 20 years.  If you're willing to use it, you probably already have an account.  2) Most of those suspicious accounts bid up multiple jerseys simultaneously.  It's not likely that there are people out there who just HAVE TO HAVE ten one-off gamers for a total of 5 grand or something.

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31 minutes ago, furiousd said:

And Lehigh Valley, and at least one other team recently that escapes me at the moment.  I've heard the argument that what's happening is a bunch of fans went and created accounts after hearing at the game that the special gamers would be sold on ebay.  I don't buy it.  1) ebay has been around for over 20 years.  If you're willing to use it, you probably already have an account.  2) Most of those suspicious accounts bid up multiple jerseys simultaneously.  It's not likely that there are people out there who just HAVE TO HAVE ten one-off gamers for a total of 5 grand or something.

It is a possibility, but yeah highly unlikely.  However all you need is 1 newbie on eBay to want to get a gamer from that team's specialty jersey auction and he/she could place bids on multiple jerseys in the hopes of snagging one.  I have actually heard of this legitimately happening and I think this is more of an eBay thing than anything else.  That's why I would avoid bidding on gamers directly from teams if they go through eBay instead of another platform as eBay leaves way too much mystery and I hate that you can snipe on eBay anyways.

FWIW I remember when Devils retro night and other specialty gamers that were Meigray tagged used to be auctioned off on NHL Auctions.  Back in the time when you could actually see the username of who else bid on the jerseys, you would see auction after auction the same names come up and not a whole lot of newbies on there.  However, then again NHL auctions is still not very widely known to the general public so there is that too.

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24 minutes ago, Devilsguy said:

It is a possibility, but yeah highly unlikely.  However all you need is 1 newbie on eBay to want to get a gamer from that team's specialty jersey auction and he/she could place bids on multiple jerseys in the hopes of snagging one.  I have actually heard of this legitimately happening and I think this is more of an eBay thing than anything else. 

I don't think it's particularly rational to bid early and high on a bunch of jerseys (what if you win them all?), but I can imagine it happening.  People on FB certainly get cranked up over some of the specialty versions, and that's just the tiny slice of a given team's fanbase. 

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