*Dumb Question Alert* Re: Facebook Groups

[DM67]

So taken in the context of "what happens in the DMs": 

4 - We only allow paypal to be advertised. If you and someone you trust want to use Venmo, have at it. Between two random people, G&S is the safest and we don't allow anything else. If it was someone I knew and trusted, I'd have no problem with using any tool aside from like WU.  

5 - Yea, I guess. I didn't used to put F&F on my posts but I feel like I've posted enough (and there's no rule about it) that I can ask for F&F. If a random person posts who I don't know, then I'd be insisting on G&S. I'll even split the fee with someone, it's not a big deal when it's a real person with a background. When u/randomnewguy comes on and posts, it's kinda tough to say that F&F is OK. That's why we made the trusted subreddit users list.

And you're also right about knowing if something is as described. Paypal has become really anti-seller over the past few years, and if there was another payment method that allowed buyer protection for the same ~3% fee, I'd switch today. My understanding though is that the grace period begins from when the transaction occurred, not when you received it. That's why I think 30-60 days is fine especially for international stuff since customs can take forever. 

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edit: At the end of the day, the mods cannot stop you from doing whatever you want in the DM's. It's simply not possible. All we can do is make suggestions about how to stay safe. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by DM67

[mfitz804]

6 minutes ago, DM67 said:

So taken in the context of "what happens in the DMs": 

4 - We only allow paypal to be advertised. If you and someone you trust want to use Venmo, have at it. Between two random people, G&S is the safest and we don't allow anything else. If it was someone I knew and trusted, I'd have no problem with using any tool aside from like WU.  

5 - Yea, I guess. I didn't used to put F&F on my posts but I feel like I've posted enough (and there's no rule about it) that I can ask for F&F. If a random person posts who I don't know, then I'd be insisting on G&S. I'll even split the fee with someone, it's not a big deal when it's a real person with a background. When u/randomnewguy comes on and posts, it's kinda tough to say that F&F is OK. That's why we made the trusted subreddit users list.

And you're also right about knowing if something is as described. Paypal has become really anti-seller over the past few years, and if there was another payment method that allowed buyer protection for the same ~3% fee, I'd switch today. My understanding though is that the grace period begins from when the transaction occurred, not when you received it. That's why I think 30-60 days is fine especially for international stuff since customs can take forever. 

So, its not a rule against accepting F&F, its a rule against saying you accept F&f? How does that protect anyone?

Re #5 again, you're making the exact judgment for yourself that I think every person should be able to make. If you don't know/trust the person, use the method that adds protection. I don't see why there needs to be a rule about it, if you're capable of making that judgment, why isn't everyone else? It shouldn't be tough to say F&F is ok, all I say on my forum is "deal at your own risk, I'm not responsible for getting involved in your deal". Granted, I don't have 40,000 members. But still, I see no reason to interject myself. 

30-60 days for international deals from the date of payment is fine. Those items take longer to get there. But I would still think it makes more sense for the period to run from the receipt of the item. That way, you could have one policy that is fair to everyone regardless of where they are located. Making it run even 60 days from the date of payment for US transactions, which are usually delivered via Priority Mail in 2-3 days, is way longer than it needs to be and it just invites fraud. 

[DM67]

Here's how I look at reddit v. FB v. here.

- You can sign up for reddit in seconds and do whatever you want. It's totally anonymous and quite frankly, dangerous. It's one of the highest-risk platforms out there. I don't know how people can try to sell via Twitter or IG without G&S. That's absolutely terrifying to me.

- FB (typically) has your real name. You have friends and time invested. You don't want to hurt that, so you try to be more honest.

- IJF has verification steps, and a content threshold. It's also a very small group of people who hang out here, who are very particular about their stuff with a high bullsh*t detector.

Yea, the rule is a little "big brother" - there's no denying that. But in a giant site of of anonymous people, we did the same thing every other non-trivial subreddit that allows sales did in restricting payment methods to G&S. If you and someone else agree on a price that's 3% lower via F&F, so be it. Don't come crying to the mods if you get scammed. We used to not care, but once we passed (I think) 25k, we had to have a chat about it. Statistically, scamming doesn't happen on the same scale in smaller groups. In larger groups, people gain even more anonymity and the rate of uh... unsavory... people rises.

Add in that bans are mostly symbolic, and we agreed that G&S as the only payment method was the way forward to prevent scams. 

[mfitz804]

It's the only payment method in theory. Honestly you're trying to assert control over something you can never have control of. 

Seems like a giant waste of time to me. 

[DM67]

At the end of the day, the rule has done far more good than bad on the sub. It's also not aimed towards you or me, but at the random douchenozzles that try to scam people. 

[mfitz804]

58 minutes ago, DM67 said:

At the end of the day, the rule has done far more good than bad on the sub. It's also not aimed towards you or me, but at the random douchenozzles that try to scam people. 

Well I’m definitely opposed to random douchenozzles. 

[NYIJM29]

Unfortunately, there is not much a moderator of a facebook/reddit/etc can do in the event someone is scammed.  They cannot get your money back, but can boot the malfeasor.  Like the general consensus, if you want to buy a jersey and be protected, use G&S (I dont think a seller would decline taking your money so long as you eat the fee).  If you dont care about protection, go ahead and do FF.   It isnt like anyone is saying "I will only take FF/venmo/zelle/etc." 

 

To change topics, how about that Jagr Caps thread in the GW FB group? Some of the comments...woof. 

[Devilsguy]

1 hour ago, NYIJM29 said:

Unfortunately, there is not much a moderator of a facebook/reddit/etc can do in the event someone is scammed.  They cannot get your money back, but can boot the malfeasor.  Like the general consensus, if you want to buy a jersey and be protected, use G&S (I dont think a seller would decline taking your money so long as you eat the fee).  If you dont care about protection, go ahead and do FF.   It isnt like anyone is saying "I will only take FF/venmo/zelle/etc." 

 

To change topics, how about that Jagr Caps thread in the GW FB group? Some of the comments...woof. 

The seller of that one is using a FB account whose name is "Hockey Jersey" in Czech.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Devilsguy

[NYIJM29]

22 minutes ago, Devilsguy said:

The seller of that one is using a FB account whose name is "Hockey Jersey" in Czech.

I love it. LOVE it. 

 

I liked the "this guy posted old auctions on my post, so Im doing it back"

[DM67]

The NOT GW group name change fiasco, yikes. 

[Devilsguy]

13 hours ago, NYIJM29 said:

I love it. LOVE it. 

 

I liked the "this guy posted old auctions on my post, so Im doing it back"

He also has 3 different accounts as well and has contacted me in the past with all three of them, sometimes at the same time lol.

FWIW that guy keeps lowballing me on one of my jerseys for using an auction from 3-4 years ago on a similar jersey.  I keep countering with another auction from 2 years ago where another similar jersey sold for more than my asking price.

[NYIJM29]

2 hours ago, Devilsguy said:

He also has 3 different accounts as well and has contacted me in the past with all three of them, sometimes at the same time lol.

FWIW that guy keeps lowballing me on one of my jerseys for using an auction from 3-4 years ago on a similar jersey.  I keep countering with another auction from 2 years ago where another similar jersey sold for more than my asking price.

I hate people that mention auction prices -- if it was such a good price, why didnt you just buy it in auction? Also, they don't take into consideration the 19.5% buyer's premium

[NYIJM29]

I want to address the NOT Game Worn Hockey Jersey Collectors group.

Most know that I am an admin there. A former IJ member and I started the group 5 years ago. The intention was for the group to be a new medium to display, sell, and share jerseys that were not game worn.  Last night, an admin changed the name of the group to prohibit the posting of any jersey for less than $150. The admin has been spoken to and elected to step down. The group will not enforce the price limit and will be changed back (Facebook will not allow us to make the change back 28 days).  We apologize for the inconvenience and scare. 

[jsh139]

9 hours ago, DM67 said:

The NOT GW group name change fiasco, yikes. 

I don’t understand. He is a good guy who’s been an asset to the community. Really went out in a blaze of glory there.

Edited January 26, 2020 by jsh139

[DM67]

Yea, I've never had a problem with RA. He's been a solid dude every time we've spoken, but the comments were getting to the gatekeeping side of things. 

[Devilsguy]

1 hour ago, NYIJM29 said:

I hate people that mention auction prices -- if it was such a good price, why didnt you just buy it in auction? Also, they don't take into consideration the 19.5% buyer's premium

I get when people use auctions as a gauge but people often lose the context of them. Just because someone got a great deal or got bent over a barrel doesn't mean that is the typical or average price point.

[jsh139]

Price is honestly irrelevant. It’s worth what someone is willing to pay. Most of us aren’t doing this to turn a profit. I think the vast majority of us just want to get back what we paid for things when we sell them. If that isn’t possible, then we are the ones who get to decide what we’ll settle for. I can’t stand when people comment  negatively on prices. If you don’t like the price, make an offer or move on. Simple. 

[mfitz804]

3 hours ago, jsh139 said:

Price is honestly irrelevant. It’s worth what someone is willing to pay. Most of us aren’t doing this to turn a profit. I think the vast majority of us just want to get back what we paid for things when we sell them. If that isn’t possible, then we are the ones who get to decide what we’ll settle for. I can’t stand when people comment  negatively on prices. If you don’t like the price, make an offer or move on. Simple. 

Agree 100%. Making negative comments just messes with a guy’s ability to sell and I hate that. 

And any time I get back what I paid, I’m elated. Granted gamers hold their value better, but still. 

[Devilsguy]

So a couple weeks back I noticed a website was using a couple of pictures of a jersey I took.  I sold the jersey approx 18 or so months ago but now I see the pics I took on this site.

Anyone else get this?  This has happened to me a handful of times before.  This is also not an auction or sale site, it’s literally a “fan site.”

[DM67]

@Devilsguy Yea, I had a guy lift my pics of a jersey to peddle his s*** fakes on letgo. 

But in your case, that's kinda weird. I wonder if it's more of a "documentation" kind of thing?

[Devilsguy]

1 hour ago, DM67 said:

@Devilsguy Yea, I had a guy lift my pics of a jersey to peddle his s*** fakes on letgo. 

But in your case, that's kinda weird. I wonder if it's more of a "documentation" kind of thing?

It’s a website devoted to a player.  It’s a game worn jersey that he said is in his collection, but the pictures he is using are ones I took.

I am not sure if this is the guy I sold it to or if he sold it to this owner.

[jsh139]

Had one of my jerseys show back up on eBay. With some of my pictures. I say some, because the guy had modified it! It was a gamer and he put some extra wear on it and modified the fight strap. Crazy! Turns out, the seller had bought it that way from the guy that originally bought it from me. He ended up returning it to the guy that bought it from me. 

[Devilsguy]

So with everything going on and working from home for the past two weeks (and for at least two more coming up), I have been focusing more on the FB groups more than I normally do.

I’m in dozens of jersey groups and frankly I don’t keep good track on a lot of them.  Tonight I found out that I’m a member of a jersey group that not only tolerates fakes/knockoffs, but encourages them.  Go figure lol.

[Devilsguy]

Just saw from a post in the game worn group that the Meigray expo has been postponed.  Was supposed to be for July 18th.

[NYIJM29]

1 hour ago, Devilsguy said:

Just saw from a post in the game worn group that the Meigray expo has been postponed.  Was supposed to be for July 18th.

MeiGray did the right thing.  I was shocked people still attended NoVA (no offense to those who attended NoVA). 

Edited April 7, 2020 by NYIJM29